HooptownGTA Forums

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
HooptownGTA Forums

The Greater Toronto Area High School Basketball Forums

+49
101010
tart11
kobee14
Up&Comer
Lawd A Mercy
HAWK-BOY
juststoptheboosting
winordie
TakinBallToNextLevel
THESCOUT
ball4life
whitechocolate
BBaller
Coach Melnik
maple kid
CoachImgrund
drake123
money1234
Special K
acie earl 55
Tila_Tequila
DaKidMusclez
highflya
the_legend
rising_star_34
zonekiller
Toy.Zebo
bronbron23
CoachW
CoachPaul
BornToBall
UnknownFORnow
DaFuture...
stunin101
iHoop
Joking
bballguru
calderoni_8
Coach Clement
dhoward12
larizhou
balla_1
Arpankumar4
kingjames23
hardworker
LEBRON4MVP
simple touch5
Jarvis
donotbother
53 posters

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    avatar
    Tila_Tequila
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 280
    Registration date : 2008-09-18

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Tila_Tequila Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:01 pm

    kevin ramos
    acie earl 55
    acie earl 55
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 312
    Registration date : 2008-07-13

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by acie earl 55 Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:09 pm

    Myck should be in Grade 11 too . . .
    avatar
    Special K
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 1
    Registration date : 2008-12-14

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Special K Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:46 am

    Joshua Mootoo, #22 on the Richmond Green senior team. About 6 feet tall, athletic, aggressive on D, good ball control and court vision. Most importantly, he can score at will, and if it wasn't for foul trouble he would be dropping 25+ pts a game with ease. If he was playing on the junior team, i think im jus gna end it there.
    avatar
    money1234
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 7
    Registration date : 2008-12-14

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by money1234 Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:03 am

    Jarryn is a good player, but got cut in one of the first rounds of try outs for Team O. Maybe he got better. I don't know. I haven't seen him play in the last 3 months.

    Juan is a great player. He made the mistake of trying to play Sr. this year. He's getting hardly any playing time and his statistics are (as a result) way down. If he played for me, he probably be dropping 30 a game.

    You might want to review the list of Team O players first (that won the National Championship this year) before you start talking about some of these other guys.

    first of all who r u coach paul? second jarryn and juwan should be up there because every year they have improved on their game. juwan played senior because junior is no competition for him so what is the point of him playing junior scoring 30 40 or even 50 a game with no player development. he also starts on senior so i don't get where you say he gets no playing time
    avatar
    BornToBall
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 174
    Registration date : 2008-11-15

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by BornToBall Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:12 pm

    Kevin Pangos is the best 93.
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:51 pm

    Hi Money1234,

    I'm the coach of the Loyola Jr. team. At the risk of repeating myself from an earlier post, I coached the Major Midget Mississauga Monarchs AAA (1992 kids) for the last 4 years along with Coach Wells Davis.

    During that time I coached Juwan and Jarryn and am very familiar with both these kids and their game. Jarryn was on our team when we won OBA gold a couple of years ago.
    In all the years that he played on the Monarchs he was never a starter. Not because he was a bad player, but because the other guys on the team were better.

    I agree with you that both these guys are great players. I also agree that year after year they are improving. But, every player that is any good is constantly improving otherwise you don't move on to the next level of basketball. So, just because they've improved since last year doesn't mean that this alone makes them a top 15 player.

    Juwan is a top 15 player in grade 10. He's big, strong, fast, great BBall IQ. I never said that he shouldn't be on the list. What I said was that I think he made a mistake playing senior. I've been to a few of the Loyola Sr. games and seen Juwan play. He may or may not be a starter (I don't know because I've never been there at the start of a game), but I know that he definitely has limited playing time. Because of this limited floor time and because he's playing against 17 and 18 year old kids, he doesn't get anywhere near the stats that he should.

    At this level of basketball, its all about exposure. The people that make decisions about which team you will or will not make, what scholarship you will or will not get are looking at NUMBERS!!! Nobody cares that you're 15 and playing with older guys but only scoring 8 points a game and getting 2 rebounds. These numbers will not draw any attention to you. What kind of "development" is he getting sitting on the bench? I was on the sideline with his mother one game and we were both shaking our heads at why Kayon and Juwan weren't on the floor when they are clearly better than most of the guys on the team. In my personal opinion, his decision to play on the Sr. team has hurt him more than it's helped.
    avatar
    drake123
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 3
    Registration date : 2008-12-14

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by drake123 Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:20 pm

    I think Faith, Martin, Negus and all those guys made bad choices as well by playing up. All those guys would easily average 25-30 points a game in junior. But then again the only thing they get out of it is they get to shoot a bunch of shots whenever they want. We all know this is the way it is on each team that has any kind of star player. On the upside- the tougher competition this year should prepare them all for next years season. This year will be used prob as a developing year instead of a dominating year at the junior level
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:10 pm

    There's another kid on the Loyola Sr. who is in Gr 9.

    Everyone told him not to go, but he was so happy to be picked that he didn't listen to anyone. In tough games he doesn't see the floor at all. In other games he sees maybe 4 minutes.

    He would have probably been a starter on my team and seen about 20 minutes or more play time per game. That's how you get better.

    My advice to everyone out there is not to jump into the deep end of the pool untill you've learned how to swim. Playing and dominating at your own level is how you learn how to swim.
    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 265
    Registration date : 2008-08-04

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachImgrund Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:59 pm

    Not sure if I totally agree with you on that one Coach Paul. Some players improve their game by playing Senior early on; other players get held back. Personally I think it's better for a kid to get 12 minutes playing Senior than 24 minutes playing Junior. In Junior basketball you can pick up a lot of bad habits because you can get away with it like sloppy passes, too much dribbling, too much penetration, shooting the ball not at the peak of a jump shot, etc.

    If you're son was asked to play a year up on an OBA team, would you say no?
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:47 pm

    [quote="CoachImgrund"]Not sure if I totally agree with you on that one Coach Paul. Some players improve their game by playing Senior early on; other players get held back. Personally I think it's better for a kid to get 12 minutes playing Senior than 24 minutes playing Junior. In Junior basketball you can pick up a lot of bad habits because you can get away with it like sloppy passes, too much dribbling, too much penetration, shooting the ball not at the peak of a jump shot, etc.

    If you're son was asked to play a year up on an OBA team, would you say no?[/quote]

    As a matter of fact Nik has played up a year in AAA for the last 5 years. This is his first year that he's playing at his own age level. Although he as always played well at that level, he was often overshadowed by guys like Wells Davis and Renier Croft. He WANTED to play at his own age this year to see how well he could do.

    Playing up a level is NOT for everyone. I agree with you that "some" players improve their game by playing Senior early on. There are however very very few players that I think this would apply to. I went to school (St Mikes) and played highschool ball with one of the guys who needed to play Sr. when he was in Gr. 9 - Leo Rautins (voice of the Raptors). Sorry to say but I don't think that Juwan is anywhere close to being as good as Leo was in his day.

    I personally don't think that players "pick up" bad habits in Jr. ball. I think that most players "already have" bad habits because they haven't developed enough yet. It's up to the coach to "un-teach" these bad habits. When you're learning to drive a car you don't start with a Forumula One race car because "you'll pick up bad habits" if you drive some beginner car like a Honda Civic.

    Following your philosophy one step further, do you think that it's better to have a 15 year old play against 21 year old (6' 10'', 240 Pound) players at a college level for 4 minutes than to play Jr. for 24 minutes? The 15 year old will learn nothing, will be humiliated and become frustrated because they do not yet have the physical and mental part of the game down anywhere close to what the older boys do. It doesn't matter that the 15 year old can shoot 3 pointers and has a wicked cross.

    Again its only my personal opinion, but I don't think a player like Juwan is learning any kind of "advanced" skill playing 10 minutes a game on Sr. Even though he appears to be a man, he is only 15. He still thinks like a 15 year old and has the emotions of a 15 year old. If he played 24 minutes a game in every Jr. game and scored 40 pts per game, he'd be on an emotional high and he would be building is confidence in every aspect of the game. When its truely time to play up, he'd be emotionally and mentally stronger than most players and would dominate that level of play as we'd expect him to.
    avatar
    the_legend
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 29
    Registration date : 2008-11-17

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by the_legend Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:29 pm

    yee coachpaul is rite
    tell more bouttt leo LOL
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:32 pm

    [quote="the_legend"]yee coachpaul is rite
    tell more bouttt leo LOL[/quote]

    What do you want to know.
    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 265
    Registration date : 2008-08-04

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachImgrund Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:37 am

    [quote="CoachPaul"]I personally don't think that players "pick up" bad habits in Jr. ball. I think that most players "already have" bad habits because they haven't developed enough yet. It's up to the coach to "un-teach" these bad habits. When you're learning to drive a car you don't start with a Forumula One race car because "you'll pick up bad habits" if you drive some beginner car like a Honda Civic.

    Following your philosophy one step further, do you think that it's better to have a 15 year old play against 21 year old (6' 10'', 240 Pound) players at a college level for 4 minutes than to play Jr. for 24 minutes? The 15 year old will learn nothing, will be humiliated and become frustrated because they do not yet have the physical and mental part of the game down anywhere close to what the older boys do. It doesn't matter that the 15 year old can shoot 3 pointers and has a wicked cross.[/quote]

    I've seen players that had great potential not really 'advance' because they've been playing junior ball. I guess it depends on the team. If the Junior team and the division they are in are strong, there is less to gain by playing Senior. If you're a very skilled player on a strong Junior team playing against weak opponents, what benefit is this?

    As you said, you've had your son 'play up' a division. You must see SOME merit in doing this.

    Although you're 15 vs 21 example is a little extreme, I have seen players play up two divisions and do remarkably well.

    At Jamesville-Dewitt High School in Syracuse, New York, there is a grade 12 player by the name of Brandon Triche. Since grade EIGHT (yes - 8!), he's been playing SENIOR high school ball for Jamesville-Dewitt. This is the same team that has won the New York State Championship NUMEROUS TIMES in the past 5 years and had a perfect season in 2005. This is an exceptional team! I had the pleasure of watching this young man play when he was in grade nine, and seeing Jim Boeheim in the crowd watching as well. Anyway, despite playing Senior basketball since grade eight, Brandon was just recently signed by Syracuse, and is now in the Top 100 recruits as per ESPN.

    Ironically this story has a 'Rautins' twist - this is the same school Andy graduated from in 2005!
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:43 pm

    I think we're basically on the same page coach. I think its a matter of the right player on the right team with the right coach at the right time. The player in question (as you've shown in your example) needs to be truely exception to really excel.

    These types of kids are few and far between. My point on Juwan playing Sr. is that I don't think that his current situation is helping him. I could be wrong, but it doesn't look good from where I'm sitting.

    The amazing thing about the Rautins familiy is how good both Andy and Leo were. Although I never saw Andy play, his picture is in the St. Mikes hall of fame (along with hockey legends like Dave Keon). From what I've heard Andy was better than Leo, but had too many injuries and had to quit.
    avatar
    maple kid
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 88
    Registration date : 2008-12-04

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by maple kid Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:13 pm

    each player should be evaluated on an individual basis. not everyone is in the same boat.
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:16 pm

    You know as soon as I go shooting my mouth off about how little playing time Juwan is getting, he got a ton of time today. Well, good for him. This is what I want for him. If he's playing up, he needs playing time. If the coach give it to him then this is great!
    avatar
    Coach Melnik
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 370
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Melnik Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:30 pm

    Andy? Leo's older brother was named George..and he was a fantastic shooter!
    Coach Clement
    Coach Clement
    Hall Of Fame

    Number of posts : 5295
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Clement Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:43 pm

    George Rautins was a great player in his own right!

    Being even more ancient than Coach Melnik I remember him well!

    I also remember Leo in elementary school. James Culnan I recall!

    Both are among the greatest players this country has ever produced!


    _________________
    "If you want to play then practice, if you want to win then practice harder."
    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
    "A true teammate knows it's not about being better than one another, but making one another better."
    Follow me on twitter: @coachclement
    avatar
    drake123
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 3
    Registration date : 2008-12-14

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by drake123 Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:26 pm

    i could have sworn this thread was bout the top 15 players for 93. Where did the Rautins family come into all of this (no disrespect to any coaches). I'm very sure that many of the players that read these threads are far more interested in your opinion of the top players rather than the playing time 1 player is getting or not getting in Juwan's case.
    avatar
    the_legend
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 29
    Registration date : 2008-11-17

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by the_legend Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:30 pm

    shutu p
    avatar
    CoachPaul
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 306
    Registration date : 2008-12-07

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by CoachPaul Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:28 am

    Sorry. Got carried away. And yes it was George, not Andy.
    avatar
    Coach Melnik
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 370
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Melnik Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:26 pm

    Coach Clement, did Leo really go to James Culnan? That is a block from Runnymede. It would have interesting to see Leo Rautins and Bo Pelech on the same high school team...might have been an unbeatable combo.
    Coach Clement
    Coach Clement
    Hall Of Fame

    Number of posts : 5295
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Clement Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:32 pm

    Would I lie, Coach? Very Happy


    _________________
    "If you want to play then practice, if you want to win then practice harder."
    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
    "A true teammate knows it's not about being better than one another, but making one another better."
    Follow me on twitter: @coachclement
    avatar
    Coach Melnik
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 370
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Melnik Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:53 pm

    No of course not. I just didn't realize that Leo went to James Culnan. I knew he grew up in that area but I didn't realize he was that close.
    Coach Clement
    Coach Clement
    Hall Of Fame

    Number of posts : 5295
    Registration date : 2008-07-09

    TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date - Page 3 Empty Re: TOP 15 GR Ten Players up to date

    Post by Coach Clement Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:06 pm

    [quote="Coach Melnik"]No of course not. I just didn't realize that Leo went to James Culnan. I knew he grew up in that area but I didn't realize he was that close.[/quote]

    Leo played against a kid I once coached named Joe Miched who played at Neil for Ted Schmidt.

    Joe had game and was a challenge even for Leo an all-time great in Toronto Basketball.


    _________________
    "If you want to play then practice, if you want to win then practice harder."
    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
    "A true teammate knows it's not about being better than one another, but making one another better."
    Follow me on twitter: @coachclement

      Current date/time is Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:57 am