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The Greater Toronto Area High School Basketball Forums

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stangscoach
cdb
6 posters

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five

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    cdb
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 22
    Registration date : 2010-10-08

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by cdb Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:05 pm

    The Toronto Star posted their 2010 Senior Girls fab five.

    Lindsay Panchan- Ajax Notre Dame
    Guard
    Team Record:35-1
    Age: 18 Grade:12
    Height: 5-foot-8
    2010 Averages: Points 16/game, Rebounds 4/game, Assists 5/game

    Cassandra Nofuente- Downsview
    Guard
    Team Record: 31-3
    Age: 17 Grade: 12
    Height: 5-foot-8
    2010 Averages: Points 21/game, Rebounds 12/game, Assists 8/game

    Jose Ann Johnson- Campion
    Forward
    Team Record: 25-10
    Age: 17 Grade: 12
    Height: 6-foot-3
    2010 Averages: Points 15/game, Rebounds 10/game, Assists 4/game

    Mariah Nunes- Bill Crothers
    Guard/Forward
    Team Record: 16-3
    Age: 17 Grade: 12
    Height: 5-foot-10
    2010 Averages: Points 13/game, Rebounds 4/game, Assists 8/game


    Maddie Stephen- Lawrence Park
    Forward
    Team Record: 4-4
    Age: 17 Grade: 12
    2010 Averages: Points 33/game, Rebounds 15/game, Assists 3/game


    WOW! Very interesting choices with some very obvious exemptions.
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    stangscoach
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 13
    Registration date : 2009-12-22

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by stangscoach Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:14 pm

    CDB,
    Thanks for that information!
    It's surprising that Lawrence Park only played 8 games! Is that correct?
    hoopballstories
    hoopballstories
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 14
    Registration date : 2010-04-26

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by hoopballstories Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:57 pm

    just wanted to mention the Girls’ Basketball All-Stars



    Toronto Star high school girls' basketball all-star picks for the various leagues in the GTA.

    CISAA

    Ainsley Camroux-Peacock, Ridley

    Penny Deans, Toronto French

    Audrey Sturino, St. Clement’s

    Lauren Weingarten, Crestwood

    Cindy Zhou, Havergal

    DURHAM REGION

    Shanica Baker, Notre Dame

    Taija Campbell, Pickering

    Chloe Levy, Father Leo Austin

    Cienna Walker, Pickering

    Dakota Whyte, Notre Dame

    HALTON REGION

    Jess Boelhouwer – Notre Dame

    Sam Ernst – Holy Trinity

    Marti Killeen, Loyola

    Marie Maranan – Bishop Reding

    Camilla Paluch – Christ the King

    PEEL REGION

    Shay Colley – St. Edmund Campion

    Shardee Grey – St. Thomas Aquinas

    Alicia Melatti - Cardinal Leger

    Mikalah Mulrain – Ascension

    Eulleasha Thompson - Campion

    TDCAA

    Angelica Alfonso, Marshall McLuhan

    Chloe Mago, Senator O’Connor

    Samantha Nicdao, Pope John Paul II

    Cheyanne Roger, Michael Power/St. Joseph

    Julia Soriano, Michael Power/St. Joseph

    TORONTO

    Jamie Liang, Bethune

    Melissa Llewellyn, Thomson

    Loysha Morris, Downsview

    McKenzie Sigurdson, Northern

    Vaniel Simpson, Eastern Commerce

    YORK REGION

    Brett Hagarty, Aurora

    Daniellia Myers, Maple

    Carly Nugent, Bill Crothers

    Lindsay Shotbolt, Bill Crothers

    Julia Sundstrom, Richmond Green


    I must say congratz to Shardee Grey for making this list..she has the potential to become a well rounded player; Although I do feel that there are other players that do deserve to be mentioned along with her...

    Congratulations to all the girls for an amazing season!


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    Brazilian Blur
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 28
    Registration date : 2010-10-31

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by Brazilian Blur Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:29 pm

    I would love to know who is responsible for creating the Toronto Star list. They need to answer as to why this was the first team picked. I'm positive that all are great ladies but there is no way that a girl who played all of eight games in a very weak league should even get consideration. Take away a game against Eastern Commerce, this player played in no tournaments as well as the extremely weak league games. If somebody is gonna explain the 30 point games, then why wasn't the record holder for three of the highest four games in GTA girl's basketball history (Jamie Liang) put on this list? That is just plain ignorance and robbery on the voters part.
    Congratulations to the two deserving members of the list in my opinion ( Nofuentes and Panchan). I have nothing against Johnson and Nunes but I cannot cast a vote for kids who transfer to play what they deem to be a better basketball institution. I still cannot understand the voting for this and what it is based on.
    Serious consideration for the Fab five should have gone to Chloe Levy, Jamie Liang, Lindsey Shotbolt, Loysha Morris, Dakota Whyte, Jasmine Harris, Vaniel Simpson and Eullesha Thompson. All should be considered over the last three. Just my opinion.
    Lastly, I was and still am amazed that Jasmine Harris (Thomson) was not only not included on the Fab five but this very well deserving player wasn't even on the Toronto team.
    I want to make sure that I am not getting personal but giving my full straight honest opinion.Awful!
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    actionjackson
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 107
    Registration date : 2010-05-23

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by actionjackson Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:34 pm

    LOL... some girls on the list played less than 8 games due to injury.
    Congrats to all the athletes that made the list, but what does the Toronto Star list really mean? Coverage of high school sports in the local papers are a joke! Are they really in touch with whats happening???
    God bless Hooptowngta, so I can get my highschool basketball fix.
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    stangscoach
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 13
    Registration date : 2009-12-22

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by stangscoach Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:10 pm

    How Jamie Liang was not chosen as a member of the Fab Five is an absolute travesty. She has just had the greatest season for a girl in the GTA as far as scoring is concerned for ever. Three games with fifty points has never been done before. What shooting guard in the GTA had figures even close to that.
    Was she even considered? Who was on the panel? Did they ever even see her play? A shooting guard should be able to score. I believe Cassandra Nofuente was chosen as the point guard and rightfully so. She had an amazing year. So which one of the others was the shooting guard? Jose Anne? I don't think so.
    Something is terribly wrong here.
    hoopballstories
    hoopballstories
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 14
    Registration date : 2010-04-26

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by hoopballstories Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:06 pm

    I must say I agree with Brazilian Blur opinion..no offence to the girls who made the Fab Five list..but in terms of their ability, Cassandra Nofuente and Lindsay Panchan are the deserving canidates . My choices are pretty much the same; Jamie Liang, Lindsey Shotbolt, Loysha Morris, Dakota Whyte, Jasmine Harris, Vaniel Simpson and Sharika Smith . I was surprised myself that Jasmine Harris wasn't chosen....I would have rather seen a page layout on her and the accomplishments but as for Jose Anne?.. she is an ok player but with that height I would be expecting points in double digits on a consistent bases which she has not been able to achieve....They say that list was put together by inputs from high school, college, university and rep coaches, game officials, fans and also players but what criteria did they follow to create this fab five? ..is it stats?...I'm confused

    I have yet to see a player that can fill the shoes of Shanice Mckoy who had proven that she can really play the game and quickly adjusts when the pressure is on. If I was to pick a name that would be close to that ability it would be Shay Colley and she is still young..I would love see what she would be like in 2 years


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    cdb
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 22
    Registration date : 2010-10-08

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by cdb Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:31 pm

    I looked at the list and took a double take in amazement. I will also make it clear that this is by no means a personal attack on the players chosen but I have to call out this apparent "Fab Five" for what it isn't.
    I am very disappointed in who ever casted votes because it is clear they were not basing it strictly on what happened on the court this season. Almost every year there is one or two players that most would not even give consideration that find a way on this list and it really makes it a joke.
    I will start by saying who clearly belongs on the list that is actually on it. Lindsey Panchan and Cassandra Nofuentes had phenomenal seasons and would be voted on no matter who casted a vote. Both had tremendous seasons and both were part of very strong teams for which they were the leader. I would also say the same for Jamie Liang (Bethune) but clearly the members responsible for voting in this case are wayyy out to lunch. This kid has smashed the record book for girls basketball with:
    -three 50 plus point games
    -1 game between 40 and 50 points
    -5 games between 30 and 39 points
    - the top 3 scoring games of the year and 4 of the top 6.
    - 15 games of 20 or more points.
    So somebody who decided to not vote for this kid please come on here and explain the reasons why because it is plain and simple a joke. A cruel joke.
    I agree with Brazilian Blur when it was mentioned that Nunes and Johnson transferred to better teams so that loses points in my book. To tell you the truth, I would have been able to understand if Nunes own team mate at Crothers Lindsey Shotbolt was on the fab five.
    I have nothing against Maddie Stephens but to put somebody on with 8 total games and a 4-4 record in those games against very weak competition is self explanatory. Other than Eastern Commerce, she did not play against schools that were strong. If it is all about her points, then once again Jamie Liang has her beat in that regard. I know it is difficult for Maddie to read that people don't agree with her selection but we are all entitled to what we have to say as long as it is not derogatory or personal. A great kid and a talented player but by no means deserving of a fab five selection.
    My Fab Five would be
    Cassandra Nofuente- Downsview
    Lindsey Panchan- Notre Dame
    Chloe Levy- Austin
    Jamie Liang- Bethune
    Vaniel Simpson- Eastern Commerce

    Honourable mention but not far off would be:
    Lindsey Shotbolt - Crothers
    Mackenzie Sigurdson- Northern
    Jasmine Harris- Thomson
    Melesia Llewellyn-Thomson
    Dakota Whyte-Notre Dame

    I do not care if a kid is in grade 10 ( Sigurdson) or 11 ( Shotbolt). If they are one of the best then they belong on the list. I really want to know who voted for the Toronto Star besides Grossman. If it is college, university and rep coaches then it is a misrepresentation because how many games do these people actually see. It should be from actual high school coaches, officials, conveners, actual players and people who are actually deeply involved in the high school scene such as Rick ( Hooptown) and other coaches who give great input on here and have a clue what is going on.
    This is not the first time the Toronto Star list has been deemed questionable.
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    luv2ball
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 66
    Registration date : 2008-08-02

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by luv2ball Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:34 am

    I must admit, over the years have followed the "Fab 5" put out by the Toronto Star for a variety of sports.

    The following are my observations:

    1. There appears to be one athlete selected from each region.
    2. Academics do seem to play a part.
    3. The list seems to be comprised of Senior or graduating students.

    At the end of the day, I don't have the selection criteria, so I cannot comment on the merit of the selections.
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    Brazilian Blur
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 28
    Registration date : 2010-10-31

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by Brazilian Blur Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:47 pm

    "Luv2ball", your analogy numbers 2 and 3 seem to be correct and number 1 is correct in a sort of way and not correct in another. There always seems to be a York region player on this list that can be considered questionable. Nicole Cecchini ( St Theresa Liseaux) made this fab five a few years back and that ruffled a lot of feathers. Imgrund has gone in here and said he always casts a vote for a kid from his region. This tells me that he is not putting the best players down but rather making sure his region is represented. Not a good reason.
    Two Toronto kids ( Nofuentes and Stephens) made the fab five but once again the selection committee got it wrong. One played 34 games and the other 8.That is plain and simple, a joke. It is a slap in the face of the deserving players who are already on the list(Panchan and Nofuentes) and the deserving players who didn't make the list (Jamie Liang).
    Again I must ask one of the voters to come on here and give their criteria for voting like this. Academics should always play a role in the sense that if the student is academically eligible, then she belongs on the list. If she isn't, then she shouldn't be playing ball for her school in the first place until she cleans up her marks.
    I do not believe that a graduating player should get a vote over a younger player if the younger player is having a better season. Shotbolt( Grade 11) and Sigurdsun( Grade 10) are definitely in the top ten and are certainly more deserving then 3 of the picks. I've heard arguments that 5th year players should not be considered because they have an extra year under their belts but to me they are still high schoolers and they deserve the opportunity to be voted in.
    In my opinion, the criteria to be put on the fab five should be:
    1) The student/athlete is in good academic standing. A student with a 90 % average should not hold an advantage over a student who has a 70. This is a basketball all star team not an academic all star team. As I said before, if a student is not in good standing academically, then she should not be playing in the first place. Education is first and that responsibility falls on the student, the school and the coach.

    2) The obvious performance based reasons. Scoring, rebounding, assists etc always has and always will play a part in choosing these teams. Certainly if a kid has scored 57, 52 and 52 points in three separate games it is no fluke and a no brainer lock in choice. Oh yeah, not in the Toronto Star Fab five.

    3) Transfer- If a kid transfers for basketball reasons, this should exempt them from being chosen. I read that Nunes still travels from home and back and it takes up 4 hours a day. She had to sit out last year due to the transfer rule and that in itself should rule her out. Kids who transfer for the right reasons do not have to sit out a year and in that case, I would not believe it to hurt their chances of making the fab five.

    4) Level of competition- If a player is playing in Tier 2, that should exempt them from being chosen. If a player plays in a very weak league such as Toronto South and racks up the points, that should not help her credentials. There are plenty of tournaments that a player can go to and play against quality competition. Other than Eastern Commerce, Maddie played against very inferior competition. The best game description on all players except Lindsey Panchan was downright embarrassing. For all her accomplishments this season, the Star decides to list Cassandras best game in a 80-14 victory over Jefferies. She scored less points (Barely) against top level competition so why not mention that.

    5) Minimum number of games played- There is no reason that a player should make the fab five with 8 total games under her belt. It is harder to continue to be consistent when a student plays over 30 games such as Panchan and Nofuentes. This means that these girls have to play one or two league games during the week and then play extremely difficult schools in weekend tournaments, which in most cases is another 3 games. That shows a students toughness to continue to play at a high level as the body is aching. It shows the mental toughness needed to play through the pain. I say that 15 games would be the minimum required to be eligible.

    6) Get a group of people to vote who have a clue about the high school basketball game. Many of them are on here and many would cast fair and deserving votes based on the criteria listed above. You have between 20-30 voters who list a top 10 on their ballots in order. Points are distributed in the order. For instance, my top 10 would be
    1) Cassandra Nofuentes- 10 points
    2) Lindsey Panchan- 9 points
    3) Jamie Liang- 8 points
    4) Chloe Levy- 7 points
    5) Vaniel Simpson- 6 points
    6) Dakota Whyte- 5 points
    7) Lindsey Shotbolt- 4 points
    Cool Mackenzie Sigurdsun- 3 points
    9) Jasmine Harris- 2 points
    10) Loysha Morris- 1 point

    The winner would be Miss Basketball Toronto and the next four are the fab five. Trust me when I say the correct players will be voted in. Just my idea.
    hoopballstories
    hoopballstories
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 14
    Registration date : 2010-04-26

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by hoopballstories Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:29 pm

    Brazilian Blur
    I'm very impressed with this idea and it should be presented to whatever committe that puts together this Fab Five or better yet this would be a great way to end the highschool season with this system on Hooptowgta. I think it's fair and honest and would give our boys and girls an opportunity to really strive for their dreams and would be recognize for their efforts

    'Quote'
    3) Transfer- If a kid transfers for basketball reasons, this should exempt them from being chosen. I read that Nunes still travels from home and back and it takes up 4 hours a day. She had to sit out last year due to the transfer rule and that in itself should rule her out. Kids who transfer for the right reasons do not have to sit out a year and in that case, I would not believe it to hurt their chances of making the fab five.

    After reading this it reminded me of some discussion about some players and their eligibility to play in the first year of transfer...Maybe I dont quite understand the process of the transfer rules on who can or can't play but there was questions about a few players this season

    'Quote'
    The winner would be Miss Basketball Toronto and the next four are the fab five. Trust me when I say the correct players will be voted in. Just my idea. .

    I'm so loving this idea Brazilian Blur
    if ever you ever bring this into life ...you have 100% of my support ..I can't see why nobody else wouldn't agree with this system

    Well done!


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    luv2ball
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 66
    Registration date : 2008-08-02

    Toronto Star High School Fab Five Empty Re: Toronto Star High School Fab Five

    Post by luv2ball Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:12 pm

    Brazillian Blur,

    I second Hoopballstories and appreciate your passion towards girls high school basketball. You do have some valid points, that I can't disagree with.


    In my humble opinion (IMHO) the transfer issue is always a sensitive issue. At times there are a valid reasons for transferring.

    Having said that, getting all the information ie. stats, transfer student or not.
    Is time consuming.

    Also for the record, I have no problem with the fact that the "FAB 5" are graduating students.

    My other comment is that trying to find non-biased voters is tough to do. i really don't know if all the voters get a chance to see all the kids play.

    Please keep in mind my comments not only apply to the girls basketball FAB 5, but also apply to the other sports like boys football, where Grossman has done a FAB 5 before.

    Finally any listing or top 5 is always debateable. At times during the year I may not have agreed with Hooptown's top 16 teams exactly, but it is what it is. At the end of the day, even if there was a sophisticated computer ranking system. The results will still be debateable. Just listen to ESPN and the US college football rankings debate.

    "Onwards and Upwards "
    LUV2BALL

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