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    now Coach says he's not sorry for 100-point win

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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:53 am

    [quote="lockdownD"]all of you guys complain that this was unsportsman like but if you were in the winning coaches shoes what would you do.

    I know that micheal Jordan's love for the game would not let another team score just so the game could be closer. He would continue to play hard

    Tiger woods wouldn't hit the ball in the water if he was up -20 to 0

    Or in hockey to pull the goalie if your up by 8 goals


    All im saying is this was a tier one game, so expect tier 1 competition[/quote]

    Michael Jordan would never be in the game playing if he was up 30 in a game let alone 100.

    Golf is a bad example for the point your trying to prove

    I dont know much about the strategy of hockey but im sure there are ways of letting up in hockey without sacrificing hard work in a game. I know in basketball there are ways ie bench players, taking of a press, implementing a 3 pass rule before shooting at the basket, not allow fast breaking. These are all things the coach could have done during the game and form what I understand all he did was take off the press.

    During a D'youville girls game this year at Mount Carmel for the Rimrocker the DY girls were hammering a team. Coach Zoff told certain girls on the starting line that they were not aloud to score a basket in the second half. He put most of his bench after the first quarter with 1 or 2 starters stayin with them. He also took his press/ trap off. DY ending up winning by maybe 40 or 50 i cant remember. He did this because he analyzed his competition and realised there was no sense in humiliating those girls.
    Why couldn't the coach of the winning team take these measures? He must of known regardless who was playing from his team they were gonna win.

    On the other hand,

    I think this story is making major headlines because the team didnt score a basket. A few years back either Henry Carr senior boys or Pickering senior boys crushed another team by a huge amount. I think it had to of been atleast an 80 point spread. What is the difference between that blowout and this blowout?

    AND

    Who the hell scheduled this game or for a second, thought that this team was good enough to play in the top tier?
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    CoachPaul
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    Post by CoachPaul Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:31 am

    I personally put the blame for this tragedy squarely and evenly on BOTH coaches. The coach of the losing team knew that he was throwing his girls to the wolves and went ahead anyway. If he didn't know it at the start of the game he certainly knew it by half time. He should have stopped the game.
    Coach Clement
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:40 am

    CoachPaul
    What do you mean he plays in a league? How do you stop a game? Default at half-time?

    He took pride in the fact that his girls continued to play as futile as their situation may have been.

    Sometimes a blowout cannot be avoided even when you play half-court and stop your fast break.

    One thing I have found is ask your team to run some sets you haven't practiced or taught, that usually slows things down.

    Still if the gap between teams is too wide a blowout is inevitable.


    _________________
    "If you want to play then practice, if you want to win then practice harder."
    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
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    CoachPaul
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    Post by CoachPaul Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:02 pm

    [quote="Coach Clement"]CoachPaul
    What do you mean he plays in a league? How do you stop a game? Default at half-time?

    He took pride in the fact that his girls continued to play as futile as their situation may have been.

    Sometimes a blowout cannot be avoided even when you play half-court and stop your fast break.

    One thing I have found is ask your team to run some sets you haven't practiced or taught, that usually slows things down.

    Still if the gap between teams is too wide a blowout is inevitable.[/quote]

    This is exactly what I'm saying. Default the game at half time. I've lived through this "EXACT" scenario myself.

    4 years ago the Monarchs were playing in a tournament and came up against some team we never heard of before. It turns out it was a tier 2 team that wanted to try to play up (but we didn't know that at the time). We started out the game with a press and had a 20-0 lead within the first 5 minutes. Remember that back in those days, as soon as you have a 20 point lead you "MUST" take off your press. In addition, every player on the team MUST get equal playing time. So, at this point we took off the press and rotated in our players (everybody got 4 minute shifts). By half time we were in the lead 64-0. All we did was play good hard defence (in our end) and we kept stealing the ball and running down for a layup. They didn't have anyone that could handle the ball.

    The coach of the other team came over to us at half time and said "Sorry for the game guys, I know I'm in over my head. Can we please stop the game". We agreed and the game was stopped. Nobody was offended or upset. It was an unfortunate situation where a poor tier 2 team came up against the #1 tier 1 team.

    Their is a difference between "taking pride that his girls didn't quit playing" and just being foolish. I can assure you that in a 100-0 blowout the losing team barely even touched the ball. Where's the "pride" in doing that? That's not exactly instilling confidence in your players either is it? You know your players are being humiliated, so why would you prolong the agony?
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    whatupdawg
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    Post by whatupdawg Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:22 pm

    peepz git paid in d usa 4 coachin' at ne levl
    if dey lose dey owt
    itz mesed up but datz d name of d game $$$
    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
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    Post by CoachImgrund Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:42 pm

    [quote="Coach Clement"]Sometimes a blowout cannot be avoided even when you play half-court and stop your fast break.

    One thing I have found is ask your team to run some sets you haven't practiced or taught, that usually slows things down.

    Still if the gap between teams is too wide a blowout is inevitable.[/quote]

    Some good points, but are you saying that winning 100 to 0 is unavoidable? If you were up 60 to 0 at the half, would you allow your team to get to 100? I mean, isn't there something you can do to avoid running up the score?

    This season we were up 32 to 1 after one quarter against a team in league play. We ended up winning the game by the same margin - around 30. We ran through lines, and told the kids to play hard on offence and defence but not to score, even on a lay-up, unless they were up by less than 30. We didn't let up - we just stopped scoring. The team was happy with this and had a great time. Victory with honour.

    A blowout was possible in this case and the gap between the two teams was huge, but a blowout didn't happen.
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    CoachPaul
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    Post by CoachPaul Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:00 pm

    It's too bad there is no "mercy" rule that would be an offical way to stop a game that's getting out of control. Once you get a lead of more than X (whatever X is), then the game is called.

    I appreciate that what you did in your game was to ease up so that the other team would not be humiliated. Good intentions - I know. However, what you really did was stop playing the game. You were going through the motions, but you weren't playing basektball any more.
    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
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    Post by CoachImgrund Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:24 pm

    [quote="CoachPaul"]It's too bad there is no "mercy" rule that would be an offical way to stop a game that's getting out of control. Once you get a lead of more than X (whatever X is), then the game is called.

    I appreciate that what you did in your game was to ease up so that the other team would not be humiliated. Good intentions - I know. However, what you really did was stop playing the game. You were going through the motions, but you weren't playing basektball any more.[/quote]

    I know where you're coming from, but we didn't stop playing basketball. We just stopped scoring. We still played high intensity defence, we just held off on fast break lay-ups following steals. We still ran our offence, and looked for lay-ups passes, we just didn't 'finish'. Instead, when we had an open shooting opportunity, we kicked it back out to the point guard to run another play. I guess you come from the mind frame that basketball is scoring, and I don't think I fully agree with you. The team that scored '0' points in that Dallas game - they didn't score, but were they still playing basketball?

    The mercy rule is a good idea. It would definitely stop blowouts. What are some problems with the mercy rule? I, off-hand, can't see any, not to say that they don't exist! Do any athletic associations in Ontario have mercy rules, if not for basketball, but for any other sports?
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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:52 pm

    Aslong as points for and points against mean something in a league game then there should be no mercy rule to end games. One year a team beat my high school team by 40 points. We were missing guys to holidays and someother reasons. We played them twice that year so the second time in order to place ahead of them in the standings we had to beat them by 41! If a mercy rule was implemented of say 30 we would have no shot to even play the game for the top spot.

    How do you enforce a mercy rule in basketball? When a team hits 30 point differencial do you literally juss blow the whistle and shake hands? Thats not how the game was meant to play. What if a team ios down by 10 going into the 4th but run out of steam and end up losing by 30+?

    If there was a mercy rule in basketball then why not eliminate tier 2 and have one tier? That would never happen. Coaches should analyze potential and talent at the begining of the season and make the right decision as to tier the team competes in.

    There is nothing wrong with the way the game is played now. Everybody whos played or coached has been blown out in a game before. This 100-0 game is just one in a million. Theres no need to implement any changes.

    Although I agree with the coach being fired for not taking the right steps towards "easing up".
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    lockdownD
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    Post by lockdownD Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:50 pm

    [quote="stevelogan92"]Aslong as points for and points against mean something in a league game then there should be no mercy rule to end games. One year a team beat my high school team by 40 points. We were missing guys to holidays and someother reasons. We played them twice that year so the second time in order to place ahead of them in the standings we had to beat them by 41! If a mercy rule was implemented of say 30 we would have no shot to even play the game for the top spot.

    How do you enforce a mercy rule in basketball? When a team hits 30 point differencial do you literally juss blow the whistle and shake hands? Thats not how the game was meant to play. What if a team ios down by 10 going into the 4th but run out of steam and end up losing by 30+?

    If there was a mercy rule in basketball then why not eliminate tier 2 and have one tier? That would never happen. Coaches should analyze potential and talent at the begining of the season and make the right decision as to tier the team competes in.

    There is nothing wrong with the way the game is played now. Everybody whos played or coached has been blown out in a game before. This 100-0 game is just one in a million. Theres no need to implement any changes.

    Although I agree with the coach being fired for not taking the right steps towards "easing up".[/quote]


    i dont beleive that the coach was 100% fired for not easing up
    it was more for him not apologizing after destroying a inferior team
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    CoachPaul
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    Post by CoachPaul Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:47 am

    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
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    Post by CoachImgrund Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:04 am

    [quote="stevelogan92"]Aslong as points for and points against mean something in a league game then there should be no mercy rule to end games. One year a team beat my high school team by 40 points. We were missing guys to holidays and someother reasons. We played them twice that year so the second time in order to place ahead of them in the standings we had to beat them by 41! If a mercy rule was implemented of say 30 we would have no shot to even play the game for the top spot.

    How do you enforce a mercy rule in basketball? When a team hits 30 point differencial do you literally juss blow the whistle and shake hands? Thats not how the game was meant to play. What if a team ios down by 10 going into the 4th but run out of steam and end up losing by 30+?

    If there was a mercy rule in basketball then why not eliminate tier 2 and have one tier? That would never happen. Coaches should analyze potential and talent at the begining of the season and make the right decision as to tier the team competes in.

    There is nothing wrong with the way the game is played now. Everybody whos played or coached has been blown out in a game before. This 100-0 game is just one in a million. Theres no need to implement any changes.

    Although I agree with the coach being fired for not taking the right steps towards "easing up".[/quote]

    Some good points. In our association, point differential is capped at 15, meaning that a win by more than 15 means nothing.

    I agree with you though - it seems a little silly just calling the game when you are down by 30. I think it would be very humiliating for the other team who did come to play. Even in the Dallas game, the losing team had not won a game in three years - they didn't expect to win but came to play. Would you have been taking something away from them if you ended the game early? I guess you could argue that.
    CoachImgrund
    CoachImgrund
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    Post by CoachImgrund Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:10 am

    While talking to a coach in Ottawa about this incident, I was made aware of a document that their athletic association (NCSSAA) has put out with strategies to avoid running up the score in potential blowout game:

    Objectives:
    • Our athletic environment, while competitive, must also be safe, positive and conducive to the development of self-esteem and sportsmanship.
    • It is not the responsibility of the officials or the rules of the game to control the athletic environment. It is the responsibility of the coaches.

    Fair Play:
    • The coaches shall meet as early as possible in the contest if an athletic environment becomes detrimental. The following are suggested:
    1) appropriate substitution must be made as early as possible
    2) appropriate time adjustments must be made (eg. running time, shortened time, elimination of injury time)
    3) strategy adjustments must be made (eg. no pressure defense, concentration on possession rather than scoring)

    NOTE: Adjustments should support the development of self-esteem.

    Source: http://www.fatdog.ca/_docs/NCSSAA_-_Code_Of_Ethics.pdf
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    diavoli
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    Post by diavoli Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:44 pm

    I like the idea of running the clock.
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    CoachPaul
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    Post by CoachPaul Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:53 pm

    [quote="stevelogan92"]Aslong as points for and points against mean something in a league game then there should be no mercy rule to end games. ...... How do you enforce a mercy rule in basketball? When a team hits 30 point differencial do you literally juss blow the whistle and shake hands? Thats not how the game was meant to play...... ".[/quote]

    I think that what you're saying gets to one of the root issues. No matter what you do, whether its running time, putting in your bench, stop scoring, mercy rule, whatever... Thats not how the game was meant to be played. Basketball is meant to be played to the "best" of your abilities, not to the best abilities of your competition.

    I don't have an easy answer to this problem. Maybe coaches can agree before a game starts that they both play full tilt no matter what. That way if there ends up being a blow out nobody is surprised or angry.
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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:37 pm

    [quote="CoachPaul] I think that what you're saying gets to one of the root issues. No matter what you do, whether its running time, putting in your bench, stop scoring, mercy rule, whatever... Thats not how the game was meant to be played. Basketball is meant to be played to the "best" of your abilities, not to the best abilities of your competition.

    I don't have an easy answer to this problem. Maybe coaches can agree before a game starts that they both play full tilt no matter what. That way if there ends up being a blow out nobody is surprised or angry.[/quote]

    Coach Paul,
    Dont bother looking for an answer because there is none. From here until the end of time we are gonna see rare situations from time to time like this one. Blowouts and humiliation will never be avoided in life. It is what makes you better. Hopefully everybody who saw this story or who was involved in the game can take from this and learn.

    Basketball is such a technical game. So there is a big difference between not trying your " best" and changing your strategy. Thos guys who are so eager to play from the bench I gaurentee will give you juss as much effort as the regular rotation. I love amateur garbage time. To see those kids try there best and the crowd cheering for them to score a basket is an amazing thing to watch. Same thing for walk-ons in College.

    There is an unwritten rule in the world of competition that says whatever the comp is you compete at full tilt. So coaches should not have to come to an arangement before a game, it is already expected.Also why would a coach risk the safty and health of his starters and best players in " garbage time". The only reason why the NBA emptys the bench is because they dont wanna risk there investment and it should be the same for our kids. God forbid, a player gets injured in game and has to miss a couple days. It might not be that bad missing classes in high school but GOODNESS if you miss a class in university! No matter how much you try to catch up its still not the same as being there.
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    whatupdawg
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    Post by whatupdawg Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:11 pm

    who dis guy, nuff menz mis a clas at uni/coleg n styl getz a'z
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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:19 pm

    Would you rather not watch the Super Bowl Live than watch a taped version?
    I never said you would fail if you miss a class. I am trying to say you have to work that much harder to catch up in your class. This comes easy to some people and harder to others.

    I am one of those students who hates missing lectures and tutorials because I hate doing the catch up work.

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