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    Canada Basketball vs. Prep School

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    divspree
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    Post by divspree on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:28 pm

    This is an open question to everyone, if you had the opportunity to play for a Prep school or stay in Canada and participate in Canada Basketball. Players what would you do? Coaches what advice would you give your own child/players?

    Personally, I think playing Prep offers a higher level of competition, more exposure to college coaches and for the most part better development, because of all the resources that are available and the commitment from most American coaches. I’m not saying Canadian coaches are not committed, but I know for sure they do not have the time, facilities and finances to offer, what most programs in America do.
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    slamdunk
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    Post by slamdunk on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:11 pm

    Key word is finances. Finances = exposure
    Canadian coaches are committed but hands are tied with the $
    Coach Clement
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:24 pm

    Until the corporate sector gets involved we are doomed to mediocrity.


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    slamdunk
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    Post by slamdunk on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:45 pm

    [quote="Coach Clement"]Until the corporate sector gets involved we are doomed to mediocrity.[/quote]
    I wouldn't say doomed to mediocrity. I think more like we settle, and lucky to get the looks where we can. The talent is definitely here and we foot the bill to get the look. If the corporate sector in Canada could get the tax breaks they do in the US, we'd see more of them coming on board.
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    Coach Mauro
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    Post by Coach Mauro on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:29 pm

    I think that this is a hot topic. I, for one am not a big fan of sending our boys/girls down to the US prep-schools.
    In my opinion there are only 2 reasons to send a kid down;
    1. The student is struggling academically and would never be able to qualify in our current school system
    2. The student is in a social situation that he/she must get out of.
    The exposure benefit by playing down (high school) there is really over-hyped as far as I’m concerned. The players must keep in mind, that “if you’re good they will know and find you.” We have great high school programs like Father Henry Carr, Eastern Commerce, Pickering, Mother Teresa, London Beal, just to name a few. The majority of the best sought after players play in summer programs such as CIA Bounce, Grassroots, St David etc that are getting the contacts/exposure for potential colleges to recruit these kids.
    We are letting our talent leave our cities and provinces for no good reason as far as I’m concerned. Collectively, as coaches from the high school and club level, we must do work together to
    1. increase the level of the game
    2. increase the exposure of the players to COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY COACHES (both CIS and NCAA)
    3. encourage our players to stay local
    This will benefit all concerned. Our high schools will retain their players. The level of the game will create a “buzz” for more players to get exposure that may not have had that opportunity. This will not change overnight. It will take time. The corporate sector, media and many others have to be engaged in this process. This is definitely a long term situation.
    My colleagues in the US high school, collegiate and NBA levels have told me flat-out; THERE IS NO TRUE BENEFIT FOR THESE KIDS TO FLOCK TO US HIGHSCHOOLS. Like I said before, only a selective few need to go down there.
    The young high school basketball players hold the key to the future of basketball in Canada. We must all work together for the sake of the players (first and foremost) and secondly for the sake of the game.
    Just my thoughts.

    There are no right or wrong answers.
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement on Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:18 pm

    [quote="slamdunk"][quote="Coach Clement"]Until the corporate sector gets involved we are doomed to mediocrity.[/quote]
    I wouldn't say doomed to mediocrity. I think more like we settle, and lucky to get the looks where we can. The talent is definitely here and we foot the bill to get the look. If the corporate sector in Canada could get the tax breaks they do in the US, we'd see more of them coming on board.[/quote]

    I agree about the talent. I'm still not sure about Canada Basketball with or without the support of the corporate sector.

    It is on the level of our Senior National program that I am most concerned. I do not like the direction or lack of direction at the highest level. I want to be optimistic but find little to encourage optimism. I guess that is really what is at the bottom of what I stated above.

    We definitely have the talent under the age of twenty to compete with the best. If we can't get it done with these kids something is very, very wrong.


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    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
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    zonekiller
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    Post by zonekiller on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:56 am

    id like to see guys like rautins at ofsaa and OBA games/tournaments. at least show his face around.
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    youngcoach
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    Post by youngcoach on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:41 pm

    Stay in Canada. The majority of recruting/exposure goes on during the summer when the top talent competes against one another. I have coached AAU and worked at Five-star for the past six summers, this is where you will get noticed. Look at the strong AAU teams we have in Ontario, if you can make one of these teams, you will get all the exposure you need.

    And look at the athletes from Ontario who have earned D1 rides, the majority have stayed in Canada...Denham, Sheppard, Mattison, Blackwood, Wright, K. Cole, A. Wilkens, Davoe J. and from non-GTA- Jesse Young, Mike King, James Gillingham, Thomas Hope, Jepperson...the list goes on and on...I have wrote on here before that there is a simple formula for those who want to achieve post-secondary success...

    Go to your area high school (or one the top bball programs) and get a great education while being surrounded by family/friends.

    Play OBA in the spring to gain experience against tougher competition

    Play AAU/go to American camps in the summer to gain more exposure and face tougher competition

    Work on your game in spring and summer to improve your individual skills.

    You don't need to leave for the US as a 15 year old to achieve your goals.
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement on Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:08 pm

    Canada sends a team to the biggest tournament in the World for Juniors (Douai, France) and there is nothing on the Basketball Canada website about who is on this Junior Men's team or even that we are competing.

    Just an update on some scores.

    This is a major tune-up for the Junior World's in New Zealand!

    But who is the Canadian team?

    No Cory, No Tristan, (both with U.S. rep) no Mo Walker

    The Basketball Canada website shows Tristan and Mo as "extras" but does not list Cory.

    Looks like a re-united NEDA team - Arop, Olynyk, Nurse, Dewar, Gagliardi these are all ex-NEDA.

    I thought NEDA folded.

    They are good but is this our best? Is this Greg Francis' idea of sending our best?

    Is this the team we are sending to New Zealand?


    _________________
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    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
    "A true teammate knows it's not about being better than one another, but making one another better."
    Follow me on twitter: @coachclement
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement on Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:17 pm

    NEDA Roster

    MIKE ALLISON Forward Lynen, ON 6'9"
    MANGISTO AROP Wing Edmonton, AB 6'6"
    SIMON BIBEAU Guard St. Bruneau, QC 6'2"
    MURPHY BURNATOWSKI Wing Waterloo, ON 6'6"
    ROBERT DEWAR Forward Guelph, ON 6'10"
    ROGER DUGAS Wing Georgeville, QC 6'8"
    NICOLAS LANGLEY Wing Golden, BC 6'6"
    JAHENNS MANIGAT Guard Ottawa, ON 6'2"
    LUDOVIC NDAYE TSHIMPANGA Wing Montreal, QC 6'7"
    TYPHOON NURSE Guard Vancouver, BC 6'1"
    KELLY OLYNYK Guard Kamloops, BC 6'9"

    Junior National Roster

    MIKE ALLISON Forward Lynen, ON 6'9"
    MANGISTO AROP Wing Edmonton, AB 6'6"
    SIMON BIBEAU Guard St. Bruneau, QC 6'2"
    MURPHY BURNATOWSKI Wing Waterloo, ON 6'6"
    ROBERT DEWAR Forward Guelph, ON 6'10"
    ROGER DUGAS Wing Georgeville, QC 6'8"
    ROBERT GAGLIARDI Guard Whitby, ON 6'2"
    NEMENJA MITROBIC , '"
    TYPHOON NURSE Guard Vancouver, BC 6'1"
    KELLY OLYNYK Guard Kamloops, BC 6'9"
    TRISTAN THOMPSON , '"
    MARC TRASOLINI , '"
    SEAN WALKER , '"
    TYRONE WATSON , '"

    9 of 11 NEDA kids listed on Junior National Roster (no Cory Joseph) Greg Francis remains comitted to his NEDA kids.

    The others are outsiders. Are we about to screw up another National Program?


    _________________
    "If you want to play then practice, if you want to win then practice harder."
    "Winners find a way; losers find an excuse."
    "A true teammate knows it's not about being better than one another, but making one another better."
    Follow me on twitter: @coachclement
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    rec
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    Post by rec on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:27 pm

    You've got it right Coach Bob. The apathy in reporting on the website likely demonstrates the apathy toward the Canadian public. It is their own private party so sharing with us minions is of no importance.
    Given that NEDA was passed over by many of those you mentioned (their reasons their own) that to those "outsiders" ....is there perhaps a payback or some other similar pettiness involved here? Mad
    Attending NEDA seems to be the only criteria for playing for the National team. If that is the case, why bother with tryouts at all?
    Now that he has a foothold as coach at the University of Alberta, will we see his CIS boys also pushed to the senior team ahead of those without the connections? Coach Smart and Carleton players come to mind as well, were they really the best that was out there?....ability be damned....what an absurdity...but like all National programs...more feeding at the trough... pig
    No one is fooled...and the folding of NEDA is proof of that. There was no public support for it once it became clear it was exclusionary.
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    slamdunk
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    Post by slamdunk on Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:40 pm

    Most national teams in Canada as well as provincial teams are always preselected. Why they have try outs is ridiculous ie. JDP is always a preselected Ontario team giving false hope to those that pay a big dollar with hopes to make it at a pseudo 'try-out'. That is why very few from south in the province even consider it. They were on to this money grab long ago...and yes they are always begged with emails and phone calls to ' try- out'. They even went as far as slashing the cost in half this year for those in the lower southwest region. ...When I am sure many in the rest of the province are paying full price.
    Has NEDA actually folded for good? Great concept but most head south to play in the end. Contractually they should have made it that they had to stay in the country to play CIS if they were in this 'Canadian development' program. CIS would end up being even more competetive. IMO
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    divspree
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    Post by divspree on Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:00 pm

    These are some of the problems with the representatives of Canada basketball. The people that are involve or so call leaders are trying to dictate what goes on in the player’s lives. It’s not their jobs to tell these kids what AAU program to be apart of and which schools to attend. Their job is to get the best players in the country together and represent the country in a professional and respectable manner. It’s my understanding that they are sticking with guys that are attending schools in Canada, If those were the best players in the country there would be no problem with that decision, but if you believe these players don’t deserve to represent their country because of where they go to school and which AAU program they are apart of, we will continue the same losing trends. As a result we will never know how good we can be or what we are capable of accomplishing in the game of basketball. Roy Ranner, Greg Franics and others you can’t change the program unless you change yourselves, stop being so bias and leave the politics out the game.
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    THESCOUT
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    Post by THESCOUT on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:33 am

    MAURO I AM THE FIRST TO TELL YOU THAT WHAT U HAVE DONE WITH THOSE KIDS IS AMAZING THE WORK ETHIC YOU INSTILL IS UNPARRALELED BUT ON THIS TOPIC YOU HAVE REALLY LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY IF YOU ARE GOOD THEY WILL FIND YOU COME ON SIR LETS BE REAL YOU KNOW THAT IS THE FURTHEST THING FROM THE TRUTH. BUT THIS IS A OPINION BASED SITE
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    Coach Philippe
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    Post by Coach Philippe on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:56 pm

    I've read this topic with some interest but didn't want to step in as I'll be Coaching at a Prep School in the U.S. next year and didn't want to sound impartial.

    Just read a really interesting quote from Coach Clement on a different topic for the U16 team: "I'm not going to speculate on the why's but Canada can compete with anybody at the younger ages. That ability declines as the ages move up!

    The talent level of the players is exceeding our ability to develop that talent!"

    Now this is not just a Canadian High school basketball issue, although that is a big part of it!

    Let's be clear, Canadian High School basketball is not really comparable to an American Prep program whatsoever! There is a huge difference in Coaching (full-time professional Coach), facilities, practice/training time, schedule, exposure, budget/$, and focus on basketball.

    It's apples vs. oranges. If a player has the opportunity to go down south and focus on developing, improving, and increasing their recruiting than why not? It's not a co-incidence that players that have gone south for High School come back bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled, and higher ranked/better recruited.

    The other issue that came up is exposure through AAU or summer camps. The tide is currently changing, and the NCAA is gradually trying to phase out the influence and impact that AAU currently possesses. Over the last couple of years, they have been shortening the "live evaluation period" that NCAA Coaches have to attend summer events, and most recently this summer, they got rid of April! So now, July is the only live evaluation period left, and who knows what will happen with that?!

    What the NCAA is trying to accomplish with this move is to push NCAA Coaches to recruit during the school year through High Schools. This makes it even more important for players to be getting exposure during the High School season.

    The other issue that comes up with Coach Clement's quote is our lack of a Proffessional League and Semi-Pro leagues for younger players. This is where we fall behind to countries like Italy, Spain, Argentina, France, Russia etc.

    Also, there should be 100% Full Scholarships available to CIS and CCAA schools.

    What is the common thread? You guessed it, MONEY and lack of support from the Government and Corporate sector!

    Coach Clement's quote of; "Until the corporate sector gets involved we are doomed to mediocrity." was harsh, but maybe the truest statement on this board.

    Truth hurts sometimes...

    And yes, Pre-Selection and politics is TOXIC to the development of our National Team programs. Team Canada and it's cronyism and backdoor politics has been a turn-off for Canada's top players for many years, and it has to change in order for our best to want to represent and wear the red & white! We need to make our Elite feel welcome, proud and part of the puzzle!

    I'll always remember as a player I tried out for the National Team back in the day under Jay Triano, I was the leading scorer in the camp and visibly out-played numerous guys that made the team, made it to the final cut and then didn't make it? As a young man, I was left scratching my head and wondering why. Now years later, I know the truth. It didn't really matter how well I played, the roster was already made and I was out due to not being "connected"... Definitely must change in order for Team Canada and our sport to evolve!
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    RealBall
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    Post by RealBall on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:43 pm

    Adam Folker (Markham)
    Paul Campbell (Northview)
    Andre Wilkins (Emery)
    Alex Johnson (Vaughan Rd)
    Nemanja Mitrovic (Northern)
    Andrew Nicholson (F. Goetz)
    Jared Mintz (Vaughan Road)

    These are just a small number of the GTA athletes who stayed in Toronto High Schools and got suitable coaching, development, education and exposure to get a D1 scholorship.

    And this list doesnt include Alwayne Bigby, Devoe Joseph, Alex Hill etc, who went to GTA powerhouses like Eastern, Pickering and graduated. These athletes also stayed in Toronto and acheived their goal of a D1 scholorship.

    If you have the talent and skill, you can get a D1 scholorship from right here at home.

    Coach Phillipe, Youre quoting Coach Clement like his word is The Gospel. His is just another opinion.
    What "Truth Hurts"? The only truth is that there are different routes available to obtain a D1 scholorship, and one of them is to stay right here in the GTA.
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    Coach Philippe
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    Post by Coach Philippe on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:59 pm

    Good stuff RealBall...

    Different strokes for different folks. No doubt it is possible for players to achieve an NCAA Scholarship from here in Toronto.

    I think the discussion was Canadian Basketball vs. U.S. Prep Schools though and what the difference is. The additional discussion brought in was then our National Team program and development of Canadian players.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.
    I definitely don't quote anyone's word like Gospel though, unless that individual is Jesus! Laughing
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    BAisdoodoo
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    Post by BAisdoodoo on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:09 pm

    i agree with Coach P for once Razz
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    Public Enemy #1
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    Post by Public Enemy #1 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:24 pm

    x


    Last edited by Public Enemy #1 on Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
    petro
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    Post by petro on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:27 pm

    RealBall... you stole my thunder... thanks man! Razz

    But I would like to add by responding to the quote below... written by Coach Phillippe.

    "If a player has the opportunity to go down south and focus on developing, improving, and increasing their recruiting than why not?"

    Why not??? I will tell you why not. It's real simple why not...

    Because he is leaving all that he knows... he his leaving his parents/family, he is leaving his school, he is leaving his friends, he is leaving everything that is comfortable for him.

    He is leaving with no guarantees... only hoping everything turns out like it was sold to him.

    First and foremost... I say this as a parent... The risks are not worth the rewards. The Cons outweight the Pros.

    Now, as a coach... I see kids getting "bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled" every year... all the bloody time... so don't give me that nonsense that - that will only happen going to the US!

    Going to HS in the US, mainly for basketball purposes, may work for the truly elite player of our nation... given that the player's level of maturity is beyond his years... and his instrinsic motivation is off the charts. And still, even then... the risk is high.

    Magloire did fine... and so did all the others before him and after him... who didn't travel to the US for grade 11 and 12.

    All this hype about going to the US... in some cases... is borderline exploitation. Too often... kids... and parents alike... are told dreams can come true... but in the mean time... the kid is being ripped away from his home, family, friends, school, supports etc.
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    RealBall
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    Post by RealBall on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:32 pm

    I was joking about the "Gospel" comment Coach Phillipe. We all respect Coach Clements opinions.

    But we do agree 'different strokes for different folks'. There are different routes to the same goal that work for different people.
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    Public Enemy #1
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    Post by Public Enemy #1 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:33 pm

    x


    Last edited by Public Enemy #1 on Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
    petro
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    Post by petro on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:15 pm

    I totally concur... the exploitation here in Canada can be just the same.

    But at least if my son is with me... I will be close by to prevent potential exploitation... or at least... I'll be able to react to issues properly if things arise.

    Sending your kid away, to another country, basically gives someone else the authorization to parent your child in your absence.

    And that my friend, is insane.
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    Public Enemy #1
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    Post by Public Enemy #1 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:37 pm

    [quote="petro"]I will be close by to prevent potential exploitation... or at least... I'll be able to react to issues properly if things arise.
    [/quote]

    I don't think you can accurately use your specific case as an example. You are also a coach, from what you've said. That puts you in a different league than the average parent.
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    gnote
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    Post by gnote on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:22 pm

    coachp
    do you have a lineup for na academy yet?

      Current date/time is Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:05 pm