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    Why was the post about Henry Carr suspension removed???

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    Scarbro
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    Post by Scarbro on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:26 pm

    Hooptown is getting shady.
    This was in teh Toronto Star already so why everybody so scared to talk about it.
    Peel Fan
    Peel Fan
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    Post by Peel Fan on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:43 pm

    I was wondering the same thing. I assume it was my posts the past couple of days that did it but since I posted nothing inaccurate, nothing inflammatory or invaded the privacy of anyone, I have to ask why they were pulled. Surely this isn't an attempt to help Henry Carr keep it all a secret? I think it's way too late for that.
    Dunbarton
    Dunbarton
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    Post by Dunbarton on Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:34 pm

    David Grossman
    Sports Reporter

    When it gets right down to high school basketball and helping students, Paul Melnik has made many sacrifices, often putting others ahead of him.

    Responsible for building a successful and reputable hoops program at Toronto's Father Henry Carr Secondary, a school located in one of the city's more difficult neighbourhoods, Melnik and the school administration had to do some damage control the other day.

    It wasn't something they liked, but all black eyes do heal.

    Two players in the Crusaders junior program got involved in an incident during a Mississauga-area tournament more than one week ago, rather than take the mature route and walk away and leave others to handle the problem.

    According to organizers at the Rimrocker junior tournament, held at St. Francis Xavier High, several players from Father Henry Carr got involved in some off-court shenanigans — including responding to abusive spectators.

    Peel Regional Police were contacted and some people were asked to leave the facility.

    The decision to pull both Carr teams out of the tournament was made by Melnik in consultation with event official Dave Tucci.

    School basketball prognosticators figured the tournament final would see a match-up involving both Carr teams.

    After an investigation by Carr administrators, two players — both non-starters — were suspended.

    They have since returned to the Rexdale-area school, according to principal Mike Rossetti, not one to ignore incidents like this.

    "They were remorseful. They understand totally. Parents were here and I believe it's an isolated incident," said Rossetti. "We don't condone what happened. Basketball is a high priority for these kids, but there had to be disciplinary consequences. We address mistakes."

    The same two players, one each from the Crusaders junior A and B teams, have also likely played their last game this season, according to Melnik.

    "Yes, we have a good (basketball) program — but we also have to be good citizens," said Melnik, a teacher and coach.

    "We work very hard in this school to help students. The wrong actions by a few now end up tainting the school and all the good work. We will learn from the mistakes and be better."

    The Crusaders junior A team, unbeaten in 30 games, might be the best in the province while the B team is made up of players in Grade 9.


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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 on Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:58 pm

    The thread was removed because I responded to your post Peel Fan. Coach Melnik came back on and posted a defensive post that I again responded to. Not sure if anybody else responded to it after.
    I guess Rick deleted the thread in order to prevent an escalation.
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    winordie
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    Post by winordie on Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:29 pm

    How can you have discussion board an censor discussion. Who is the arbiter of what one can discuss. As long as it is not blatantly racist, sexist or otherwise offensive let the people speak.
    HooptownGTA
    HooptownGTA
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    Post by HooptownGTA on Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:16 pm

    I was asked to remove the thread, so I did.

    Also the last 6 or 7 posts started to get into the "I heard this" and "I heard that" comments. It's easy for a person to hide behind a User Name and make inaccurate comments about the situation. Before I removed the thread, Coach Melnik made a post asking those who were making comments to state there name instead of hiding behind a User Name and I agreed with him on that point. I respected the fact that stevelogan92 then responded to Coach Melnik's post and stated his name. However, I was asked to take down the thread, so I did.

    I will monitor this thread and only delete posts that might be inappropriate; however, I will not remove the entire thread (unless I am asked to).


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    Scarbro
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    Post by Scarbro on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:58 pm

    Ok Sounds good Hooptown. But be careful that no person controls this website becuz it should be for the public to talk about everything in highschool basketball.
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    whatupdawg
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    Post by whatupdawg on Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:19 am

    waz d prep sckool question removd?
    CoachImgrund
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    Post by CoachImgrund on Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:04 pm

    Just wanted to point out that I think that Rick is more than fair in what he allows and disallows. Way too many people come on here and bash coaches, players, and/or teams with an anonymous name. You're entitled to freedom of speech, but it's hard to grant someone that right when they don't have to be accountable for what they say.
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    Coach Melnik
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    Post by Coach Melnik on Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:17 am

    I am reposting this with Rick's knowledge.

    Firstly, I will address this only because those of you that hide behind fictitious names are able to post heresay on this site. For example, someone like Peel Fan, who is repeatedly attacking and criticizing Father Henry Carr.

    This was investigated by the Peel Police, and our Administration team. The penalties/punishments were decided upon by our Administration after reviewing all the available information.

    Two players were not made scapegoats. That is simply sensationalism and an attempt to soil the reputation of Father Henry Carr.

    Why dont stevelogan92, tart11, and Peel Fan state their names publicly, so we can all see what their motivation is? Peel Fan specifically stated that "this is an attempt to help Henry Carr keep it all a secret". What is a secret? It has been reported, and it is done. Why don't you come on here and tell us specific details of your life's transgressions? You don't even use your real name, you hide behind Peel Fan. That is laughable.

    Why is it okay for certain schools to attempt to attract basketball players in a number of ways (coaches in MDP programs, running elementary tournaments where you sit the best players down and promote the program, calling players at home, etc), but not okay for students to attend Father Henry Carr? Why do you not make the same claims about other schools that have "out of area" students and student-athletes? Why are you selective in who you bash? Why? Because these people are your friends and anything that happens at their schools is okay in your mind. Very sad!

    Why hasn't anyone brought up the major incident at another junior boys' tournament that involved a prominent Toronto school where a theft, a fight, and a weapon were involved? Police were called, and an arrest was made. Why was that swept under the rug?

    You can continue to hide behind screen names and attempt to cast a negative light on Father Henry Carr. However, for others who are open minded, I urge you to talk the abundance of parents that attend our games regularly. Talk to them first, before you so quickly criticize what we do.

    And if anyone would like to discuss Father Henry Carr Catholic School, and any of our curricular, co-curricular or extra-curricular programs, you can call the school at 416-393-5521, and ask for Mr. Melnik. I will gladly meet, engage, discuss and debate with anyone who is mature enough to visit me face to face. In fact, I invite you to visit our school and meet with me and other teachers, coaches, and administrators. If you do visit, please sign the guestbook in the main office.

    Regards,

    Coach Melnik
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    Zen Master
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    Post by Zen Master on Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:00 am

    Coach Melnik

    I for certain, do not believe A man in your profession has to convince People, players, fans on this forum of what actions have been taken this year due to this incident. It was published and Your Institution and yourself had come up with a punishment and that's all that really matters

    I hope Hooptown will continue to disengage this topic because its all been dealt with by the appropriate powers and Authority - So get off the topic and move forward -

    As Mr Melnik has stated, Go Visit Henry Carr and deal with your concerns Man to Man - He has open the doors........ Thats your next step if your concerns is this important

    Good Day!
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    Coach Melnik
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    Post by Coach Melnik on Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:21 am

    Thank you Zen Master. I appreciate your open-mindedness and fairness, which is all I ever ask for.

    Coach Melnik
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    THESCOUT
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    Post by THESCOUT on Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:37 am

    its a opinion based forum coach mel is a great role model and coach
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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:45 pm

    I responded to you coach Melnik on the previous thread that was deleted.

    My name is Ronald Rouse I graduated almost 6 years ago. I attended Mount Carmel and I played on their basketball teams at both junior and senior levels.

    If I knew about this incident that happened at the other tournament I would have responded just the same. If this had been a MC team that got involved with the incident all my responses and comments would be the same because regardless where I went to school they would have been in the wrong. I have no motivation to bash your program specifically. The incident happened at the biggest junior tournament in the province. The two semi finalists where removed from the tournament. Did you honestly think that this was going to get swept under the rug. It is going to be discussed for the next couple years or mentioned aslong as the Junior Rimrocker is run. Thats just the way it is.

    If I do attend a Father Henry Carr game and see parents, I might strike a conversation and ask them this; Where were they during the incident? Why were no parents present or supervising to control the situation in the school? Where were the coaches of the teams? How did that many people slip there supervision? Also the site convenors how did they miss the commotion? This obviously happened after the game because an A player was suspended.

    As far as recruiting, I could care less because I know it happens in alot of places. Sometimes players themselves recruit there freinds from OBA teams and the coach has nothign to do with it. It is not going to stop anytime soon. It happens here in Canada just the same as it does in the United States. If I was still playing and a school was recruiting and had a good team I would just use it as motivation to knock em off and then proceed about my day to day life, but thats just me.

    Also recruiting doesnt just happen in Basketball. It happens in almost every sport! Until this day, I am still suspicious of Mount Carmels Hockey team. I believe they recruit and will be the first one to say it. I am a proud Alumni of Mount Carmel.

    Coach Melnik when you signed up for this board you should have known you were going to have to deal with the bashing of your program. Henry Carr is not the only school who gets bashed on this board. It may be the most bashed out of the top schools but not the only one.
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    Coach Melnik
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    Post by Coach Melnik on Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:22 pm

    Thank you to THESCOUT for your kind words and to Ronald, for your honesty.

    It was never my intention to "sweep it under the rug". It was reported on Hooptown, and in the Toronto Star. Like I said earlier, fairness and equity by those that wish to comment is all I ask.

    I will not speak for parents. The coaches were in the changeroom and then walked to the bus and their cars. Both of our coaches were there past the ending of the last game. In fact, there were 2 community coaches and 2 teacher coaches.

    The incident happened in a split second. Had it happened on the first floor I am sure our parents, teachers, and coaches would have been there on the spot. At any FHC tournament, access to the 2nd floor is impossible because all the doors are locked. Laying blame is not the issue here.

    Ronald, I don't want to act like a victim. Bashing is not new to me. I was a student-manager on the Runnymede dynasty teams and later an assistant coach. I saw some of Coach Petrushchak's former friends turn on him when his teams won one OFSAA Championship and it only got worse with each successive championship. I expect it.

    What I also expect is that the "bashers" do it with transparency. State your name and say your peace. Don't hide behind a fictitious screen name. I applaud you for being open and transparent. Now, let's wait and see if the other nay-sayers will do the same.

    Coach Melnik
    Xavier Rimrocker
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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:06 pm

    [quote="stevelogan92"]Also the site convenors how did they miss the commotion?[/quote]

    I will address this point only since it is relevant to the hosts. It is not possible to lock down sections of our school. We had discussed ways to barricade out of bounds areas with administration in previous years but fire regulations do not permit this. Signs were placed on the relevant doors indicating which areas were out of bounds. The incident took place in an out of bounds area while the volunteers were cleaning the gym and we were clearing spectators out of the school. After the games were completed, supervision took place in the gym and along the route used by the public and players to exit the school.

    As far as all the accusations and innuendo flying back and forth, I think it's best that people move on.


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    Scarbro
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    Post by Scarbro on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:36 pm

    Thanks Coach Melnik and Xavier for infrmation. You are both being honest.
    Don't delete these posts becuz the discussions can help avoid the same problems.
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    wcbasketball
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    Post by wcbasketball on Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:00 am

    The request of Coach Melnik for the individuals involved in the heavy critisism to state their real names is only fair.
    Coach Melnik has always been straightforward and he never shys away from critisism nor does he complain about it. He justs expect to be treated with the same respect as he gives all of us. He has been a prominent figure in the GTA basketball scene and I applaude him for what he has done along with standing up like a man and taking these shots.
    I will once again state that Coach Melnik and the Henry Carr admin handled this situation properly.Let's also not blame the Rimrocker tournament for this as it has been and will continue to be a greatly run tournament. This should in no way paint a bad picture on Henry Carr, Coach Melnik and the Rimrocker.
    The happenings at the other tournament were not openly discussed and were kept very hush hush on here in terms of what happened. I did find that quite odd yet people jump all over Henry Carr and Coach Melnik as soon as something happens with them.
    I'm a little confused at why would people jump all over Coach Melnik as he has stated on here that the players were disciplined. Is that not the right thing to do?
    Coach Melnik, you have nothing to be ashamed off nor do you owe anybody any more explanations. You have given more than enough in this situation. Keep doing what you are doing.
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    tart11
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    Post by tart11 on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:22 am

    Why is it so important for me to identify myself? Let me first state that by no means am I out to get Henry Carr basketball. I have no motivation.

    I said that I HEARD that more then 2 players were involved in this incident.
    RUMOURS around my basketball circle suggest that more then 2 players should of been punished. This is all HEARSAY. But I have received the same info from numerous sources, I was NOT an eye witness.

    HEARD, RUMOURS, HEARSAY...not admissable in court. Am I clear on that.

    If you coach Melnik did the right thing and took care of the matter with the highest catholic standards that you preach, then you should not worry about what I've HEARD.

    Laying blame on Xavier for not locking up the 2nd floor is pathetic.

    They call me...

    MATRIX
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    Carr B Coach
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    Post by Carr B Coach on Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:27 am

    This is Coach Tony McIntyre of Henry Carr B.

    I was informed of all the statements and speculation that has been stated on this site in regards to the “incident” at the Rimrocker tournament.

    It is extremely sad to see the state of “Adults” in this game (The players have moved on already). The postings of speculation, to the accusations of recruiting, to the hatred of players on Henry Carr’s basketball team(s) it is sad to see. I am witnessing it first hand. I have been in this game for many years and take it serious, my teams are disciplined and play hard.
    (And we were all present at the game on the date in question 2 teachers and two club coaches)

    Due to the fact that this topic keeps being brought up, our players have to endure the questions, statements and defamatory comments from many avenues. It is not fair, they have been disiplined, suspended, and have paid the price for what occured. Let them move on and play Basketball please!!!!!!!!! These kids are not THUGS as some of you would like to refer to them. These are peoples son's whom work very hard both academically, and in basketball. Lets try to help these kids instead of defaming their name and the character of Father Henry Carr. This school is like a family, the support, the packed gyms, the teachers (and almost all of them) attend all home games. The school supports the teams, the players work hard in practice and in games and last but not least in the classrooms.


    As for recruiting:

    I chose Henry Carr for my son, and all of my other players PARENTS chose Henry Carr for their sons. PARENTS make educated decisions on what school their 14 year old sons will attend. I can state as a PARENT of a Henry Carr player that the ridicule, comments and uneducated speculations are disgusting. Recruiting happens in every sport, but ultimately PARENTS make decisions on who, where and why they choose a particular school over another.

    I dare the prominate schools in Peel, Toronto and York to say that they have NOT or did not ever try to recruit???? Talking to players at games, Adding players on Facebook, recruiting them without their parent’s knowledge, sending other staff to persuade players to go to certain schools, assistant coaching teams, usig other programs to draw kids. I have seen it all this year and in the many years I have been around the game.

    Some schools do it right, work with parents not the players. I have seen coaches at non school games, watching players, to me this is not an issue, build your program get who you can get, but also make sure that there is more to your program than basketball. Talk to the PARENTS. The same schools complaining have done nothing to make good basketball players, into good students. I can name so many schools and so many players that have been mislead, are being mislead, told wrong info, taken the wrong courses, and are not ready for post secondary education when they graduate. Councilors that do not know what is required for post secondary institutions etc.

    If the educators complaining do not know what they are doing to get these kids prepared, who do the players turn to? Coaches telling players that they are having "PIPE DREAMS" if they think they can play in the US. That is wrong help these kids to reach their dreams. Be real with them, but when being real make sure you also no what real is.
    Education is first and schools that understand that, inevitably will be ahead of the game when it comes to people wanting to attend.
    Why you ask, because education leads to opportunity, opportunity leads to scholarships and scholarships lead to reputation of programs. People will always hate on good programs, it’s the way of the world, but charma is a problem. What comes around goes around, what is done in the dark will come to light.

    The same people bashing Carr and that have a hatred for Carr are the same ones that ridiculed our non school program (AAU) over players leaving for the states in the past. Kind of hypocritical when you think about it. Certain people complained but our players were leaving for a better education and better basketball, but yet you still complain when players stay in Canada at prominate schools out of their areas for education and basketball (What does that tell you about those programs in their areas?) This is a great indication to me that people just love to complain. I don’t see Henry Carr complaining or Pickering or Eastern; didn’t they loose a couple of high profile players to the States, they understood and moved on, it was in the best interest of the players involved, why can’t you guys? This debate can go on for years and players leaving will not stop, education and exposure in the US will continue as long as Canadian players continue to develop their games.

    Remember PARENTS make the choices.

    Back to my team now.

    My team at Carr deserves everything they have worked for this year, they are great kids and I say KIDS (they are 14 years old, they will make mistakes) don’t act like at 14 you never did anything wrong. We are not pulling out or sacrificing a championship. We delt with the issue and moved on. These kids are at school every day, represent themselves professionally, respectfully and a great many are honor role students. For my players at Carr on the Jr B team we have over 8 players in the AP program (Advanced Placement) Many are on the honor role. These kids do their work, they attend practice and they represent their families and Carr with the utmost respect. The issue at Rimrocker was dealt with and the 1 person from my team admitted to his mistake, took accountability, talked and appoligized to the team, was suspended from school and was removed from the team. I personally held meetings with my team and coaching staff and anyone can tell you that this is the truth and nothing but the truth. Several talks to ensure that all players understand the spotlight that athletes are watched under. The way that actions blow up into bigger issues than what really happened. The administration at Father Henry Carr was excellent through the process and actions taken fit the punishments handed out, lets move on people…….

    # 1 Team in JR, # 4 team in Jr (ALL GRADE 9’s) and # 3 Team in Sr. Stay focused on basketball not what happened....its done with...
    Coach Clement
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    Post by Coach Clement on Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:32 am

    Great response Tony!


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    winordie
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    Post by winordie on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:03 am

    I am just glad people are allowed to comment without the politboro removing dissenting commenting
    Xavier Rimrocker
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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:30 pm

    Let's not forget that, while many in the basketball community find this board to be a valuable service, it is the property of one individual who is legally responsible for its content.

    If anythign is posted that is libel, he can be liable for the post, too. On top of that, he needs to ensure that the board doesn't dissolve into an endless series of fights, something that has destroyed many message boards over the years.


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    FHC Parents
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    Post by FHC Parents on Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:13 pm

    The avalanche of repetitious comments and rambling teapots on this issue really make it difficult to brew a pot of fresh thoughts!

    Congratulations and thanks to everyone for your ideas, creativity and distortion on the overlong drama and unjustified hysteria regarding FHC at the Xavier tournament. Some people may view the issue as healthy debate and entertainment and others may view it as negative criticism and social pollution.

    The Xavier incident was not treated lightly at FHC neither with parents who attended the tournament. We are happy that no one was seriously ‘physically’ hurt! The principal and coaches reinforced the importance of being role models at home, school and in the community and reiterated that student athletes are highly scrutinized on and off the court and that their behaviour reflects on the school as a whole.

    Many of you made suggestions about how the students should be punished. However it was only fair to let coaches along with the Principal decide on how to address the issue because they were near and you were distant.

    Students involved - Where there is a fire there is an audience. The other students were just the audience who got to the alleged scene when the fire was OUT! With this in mind, we inject [b]“And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee… and if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off and cast if from thee: For it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell”! [/b]

    Our children are student athletes at Father Henry Carr and they are on the basketball team. At the helm of the basketball program is coach Melnik. He is passionate about his players, the game and his new gym. Coach Melnik tries to attend every game; whether junior or senior. We parents, also try to attend as many games as possible to enjoy some entertaining basketball, provide support and to cast our eyes on all the players.

    Father Henry Carr has a caring staff committed to helping students achieve academically and socially, which is why many of the student athletes are enrolled in their Advanced Placement program. They have a new and beautiful facility; which both students and staff take care of meticulously. When we attend games or school functions we are always impressed by the students. Their games are attended by most of the teachers and 'bad' behaviour is not tolerated. If students are rambunctious we can assure you that they will be immediately and appropriately cautioned and/or disciplined.

    We are not trying to paint a picture of a perfect school attended by "Stepford Children". We just want the community to understand that this is a great school with great teachers and programs and a high level of discipline at least, “we know this much is true!”
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    Coach Melnik
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    Post by Coach Melnik on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:03 am

    Very well said.

    tart11, I have no concern over what you heard. However, I do have a problem with anyone spreading rumours and hearsay on a public forum, especially using a screen name. If you want to spread rumours and hearsay, then at least identify yourself.

    It is very clear that many of the anti-FHC comments and statements originate from Peel-based people.

    Why hasn't Peel Fan responded?

    I am appalled that some of these same nay-sayers have the audacity to show up at our school to watch games, and don't even have the courtesy to sign in as guests in the main office.

    Coach Melnik

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