HooptownGTA Forums

The Greater Toronto Area High School Basketball Forums

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    avatar
    nbacc
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 43
    Registration date : 2010-07-03

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by nbacc on Wed May 15, 2013 1:20 am


    Noel’s Basketball Academy (N.B.A COLLECTIVE) would like to formally address all OBA Clubs and Members regarding the sanction leveled out against our Club by the OBA.

    Firstly we offer our sincerest apologies to the OBA clubs directly affected in our refusal to take part in the 2013 16U boys Division 3 championship last weekend in Ottawa. Reasons souring our protest is not only the unreasonable ranking we received, but also the manner in which the governing body of OBA has officially managed or in this case miss managed this dispute.

    Extenuating circumstances notwithstanding, what are the procedures steps OBA takes before carrying out a sanction against a club?

    On May 1st several days before these sanctions were issued, NBA emailed the office of Fair Play and Resolutions and officially requested their assistance in what we believed was an unreasonable stance taken by the ranking committee, to no reply. We also emailed the seeding committee seeking an explanation for the low a completely unexpected ranking. Our email request once again went unanswered and we were never given any justification. We later contacted the vice president and then the president requesting their involvement, once again to no avail. Neither the Executive president, vice president nor the president even bothered to reply to our emails.

    We are now requesting from OBA a clear understanding of the procedure, steps, and polices that are in place before sanctions are carried out against a club. Also if there is a dispute with lower management, at what point does President, Vice President or Executive President Step in and attempt to resolve an issue democratically? For a OBA club Member in good standing to request the involvement of the governing bodies and for those request to be completely ignored and for that same club to be hit with sanctions without any formal correspondence with the upper management of the OBA frankly, is unacceptable.


    We the Coaching staff, players and parents of NBA are appalled at the manner in which we have been treated by the OBA governing body. Our 1997 boys 16U team did not receive a ranking in the initial because OBA mistakenly neglected to approve our team on the administrative web site. On April 26 the Friday before the ranking committee convened we attempted to enter in our game results and only then realized the error made by the staff of OBA. As it was a Friday and after office hours we were unable to correct the problem and input our game results until office hours resumed Monday morning. As a result we were not amongst the teams in the initial ranking. And there by miss out on the opportunity to formally appeal any ranking we may have seen as undeserving.


    Our dispute has little to do with what was mentioned above and has everything to do with what transpired shortly thereafter.

    Does the OBA acknowledge that Noel’s Basketball Academy was unable to input game results because of negligence by their staff members? And if so what were their attempts to rectifying this oversight?

    We have been participating in OBA at the 1997 age group going into our 4th year and our #1 team have made significant improvement each year as we have also made this year. It took us 3 year to earn our Division 1 ranking. Earning the 4th overall ranking in just your 3rd year is quite an accomplishment and is something our young men and coaching staff are proud of. It took a lot of commitment, effort and sacrifice from all involved and to be robbed of something that we have collectively worked diligently towards does not hold well with any of Noel’s Basketball Academy staff, parents and players. And to that point we have made what might seem as a hard and non cooperative stand, to the uninformed.
    The reasons why we have chosen to appeal our ranking at Division 3 are as follows:


    1. This season we have defeated the #3 team by 20 points. We also defeated the # 4 team on 2 occasions by 20 and then by 34 points respectively. Yet not only are both teams ranked ahead of us but they are ranked 2 divisions ahead.
    2. The #3 overall have been defeated 8 times
    3. The #4 overall have been defeated 7 times
    4. The # 5 overall have been defeated 6 times
    5. The # 6 overall has a record of 9 wins and 7 lose
    6. The # 7 overall have an over record of 17 wins and 10
    7. And the # 8 has an overall over record of 5 wins and 7 loses
    8. Due to AAU commitments and teams disbanding, 7 out of last year D1 teams are no longer taking part in OBA this year. That combined with the fact we have not lost a game to any team participating in the OBA this season. One might argue that this should have made us the #1 overall ranked.


    How does OBA justify how another club can receive a division 1 ranking with such poor win-lose ratio, and being placed over an established D1 team that went undefeated.


    Fair play and simply reasoning suggest that if a club defeats another and is also undefeated it is now unreasonable for the defeated club or in this case defeated clubs, to be placed ahead of the undefeated club in the standing.

    Not only does the above scenario accurately represent our current dilemma with OBA, but there are several additional facts we will address when we appear before the board of governors, that makes our dispute all the more outrageous.

    I recall when we became a member of OBA there was Club Membership support. I no longer see this designation on OBA’s web site. In a situation such as ours, If a club strongly believes in their position and is unwilling to compromise their integrity and choose not to accept what they view as an unjust designation who within OBA is assigned to be the voice of that club? What is the OBA’s protocol in these matters? Is it fair sanctions can be taken without any one from the OBA board of Directors investigating and corresponding with the disputing club’s president? Other than demanding for Noel’s Basketball Academy complies or else, what other step has the governing body of OBA taken in attempting to resolve this matter, before it escalated and such heavy sanctions was taken against this club.


    We are asking all club members to join us in our search for some answers and accountability from Ontario Basketball in hopes that another club will not be faced with these issues.

    Looking forward to an open and respectful dialogue!

    Thank you kindly,

    Alvin Noel
    President of Noel’s Basketball Academy
    avatar
    Reasoning
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 6
    Registration date : 2013-05-15

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Reasoning on Wed May 15, 2013 3:57 pm

    I have read your post several times, thought about it all day and decided to respond to your "facts" and your complete lack of taking any responsibility.

    Fact...you have 8 games completed, no tournaments. You played four D1 teams and a bunch of weak teams, you lost to a lower level team

    Fact...there is no way you would have or deserved to be ranked #1 in D1. That honour deservedly so goes to Burlington who actually played everyone and went undefeated.

    Fact...it is your responsibility to put up your scores early and often, the point that you did not realize that you weren't registered through OBA is YOUR fault. You did not try to put up your scores until the last minute. What this says to be is you are ducking teams

    Finally....how dare you belittle the boys in this age group especially those in D1. Take a look at the real accomplishments
    Burlington Skyhaws undefeated
    Triple Threat from not making the stiff round in D2 last year to bronze in D1
    Motion went from D3 to D1, congratulations to them
    Fire did the same
    KW and EBA were in D5 two years ago and are now D1 teams
    Brampton moved up a division
    Ottawa Next Level played incrediay well all season.

    Shame on you for being such a small minded person....you let down your parents, you let down your players, you let down your organization. You should have done your due diligence. Congratulations to Basketball Ontario for doing the tight thing. Now stop complaining and act like a responsible adult.
    avatar
    lepps
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 16
    Registration date : 2011-03-14

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by lepps on Thu May 16, 2013 10:12 am

    Are u ignorant or arrogant? That not reason! How can a D1 team Drop D3 without a lost? After beating the 3 and 4 ranked teams by 20 and 34 respectively. What’s even more disgraceful they were D1 last year when all the legit teams were in that division ranked as high as 4. The real question is when did this mistake came to oba’s attention? And did they have enough time to have it corrected? The real disrespect is asking those boys to play D3 and their parents to spend another $700.00 on Ottawa after their parents have invested so much money and time in their training, and the kids have worked so hard looking forward to opportunity to compete with the best. There should be an investigation and my guess is this is not the end of it just the beginning, every basketball club out there should be concerned if Ontario basketball gets away with this they can do the same thing to you.
    avatar
    Reasoning
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 6
    Registration date : 2013-05-15

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Reasoning on Thu May 16, 2013 11:39 am

    It is not disrepectful to the boys on NBA Collective at all. They worked hard, trained hard and played hard. As the coach from NBA Collective stated he tried to enter all of his scores On the last day possible at a time when OBA was closed. The person who needs to take responsibility for this is the coach and organization for failure to enter their scores in a timely manner. This could have easily been avoided if that was done. All the OBA did was finally follow their own rules. All it comes down to is coaches and organizations being on top of their teams. Do you not find it odd that NBA Collective coaches are the only I Ed complaining about being screwed? This is not the players fault. Look to your coaches...unfortunately this is their doing.
    avatar
    nbaca
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 19
    Registration date : 2013-05-16

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by nbaca on Thu May 16, 2013 1:01 pm

    It seems like the OBA picks and chooses when they want to enforce their rules. NBA registered the team and the OBA did not activate our team on the website until the last minute. Nonetheless, the OBA still had ample time to rank us, and they made a conscious effort to put NBA 2 divisions below the one we deserved. SBA defeated our #2 team not our #1 team but irrelevant of that FACT, our record of 7 and 1 with a decisive victory over #3 and two decisive victories over the #4 does not deserve a D1 ranking? If you were at all objective you would have to agree those victories should have easily earned us a D1 ranking. NBA is also a new club and have worked very hard over the years to climb the ranks of the OBA. The coaching staff has a very big part in the development of the kids and are very committed to the club. The coaching staff have developed NBA from a D4 team to a D1 team in just three years. This fact should have a big part in the objective ranking of NBA, also considering we were ranked in D1 last year. There are some D1 teams that have sub 500 records. Fact, last year most of these team would not have been D1. The Fact is we played 3 D1 teams with all victories, no defeats. As far as the suggestion our results were posted late in an attempt to duck teams also tell me, not only do you not know of what you speak but you also of whom you speak. N.B.A Collective has never run away from any challengers and to say otherwise is undeserving and dishonest. The Fact is it was difficult for us to arrange meaningful games this season given most of the D1 teams are no longer taking part in OBA, as demonstrated by the results over the #3 and #4 respectively. Please explain how the #3 and #4 were ranked not only ahead of us but also in 2 divisions a head. Opinions such as REASONING's, or a lack there of, is what we have encountered and is the Reason why we have chosen to dispute our ranking. Your pseudonym is truly laughably.

    NBA Collective Organization
    avatar
    Reasoning
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 6
    Registration date : 2013-05-15

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Reasoning on Thu May 16, 2013 1:28 pm

    All you had to do was put your scores in earlier or following your games and you would have seen the issue. You would have had time to fix it then. Now because of your lack or organizational skills you are crying foul. I am not discounting how good your team is, or how hard the players work. You seem to constantly dismiss how hard the other teams in D1 worked. You. Are a coming across very small and have not even offered a congratulations to them. All you have done is dismiss their accomplishments.

    You need to take some responsibility if not all responsibility for this over sight not being noticed earlier. Be organized, do by your kids right. Teach them of responsibility. Stop blaming others for what you could have corrected if you had "been on the ball". Simple!!!
    avatar
    Reasoning
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 6
    Registration date : 2013-05-15

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Reasoning on Thu May 16, 2013 1:33 pm

    One last question or series....
    Where were you for the Brampton tournament when 6 of the D1 teams were there
    Where were you for the Etobicokr tournament when 7 of the D1 teams were there
    Where were you got Motions tournament. 3 of the D1 teams there
    Play a tournament!!' Avoid this issue.
    avatar
    Cosburn
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 12
    Registration date : 2010-07-17

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Cosburn on Thu May 16, 2013 3:04 pm

    As D3 coach and parent I think I can provide a bit of a different perspective.

    Anyone who has dealt with OBA for even a short period of time knows that the OBA is administratively challenge. To wait until the last minute to resolve whatever difficulties your club had is negligent. That's on u coach.

    But should the Noel team and teams in D3 suffer as a result of these administrative foul ups....my answer is no.

    All clubs are entitled to fair/unbiased rankings and as far as possible a competitive Ontario Cup. All most all of us can go on and on about the specifics as to how teams have been screwed by the ranking committee. Ranking teams is for the most part a subjective activity but its best to say that most coaches and parents find that the standards fluctuate from team to team and year to year. Every year/every division this process is rife with accusations of the ranking process being highly political and that should change.

    This year in D3.. in the infinite wisdom of the OBA they decided to stick 2 teams with D1 pedigrees in D3. Noel withdrew and a CYC team marched to the gold medal without sweating. If the Noel had not withdrawn it would have meant the actual D3 teams would have been playing for 1 medal. Not right. Not what we pay our money for.

    My point is this.... The OBA did not have even an iota of concern regarding the competitive balance in D3. Some how these concerns are considered less worthy. Most of these kids work extremely hard and our team in particular has moved from D7 to D3 in 2 years without an appreciable change in personel. The OBA to avoid the problem of "demoting" a D1/ D2 team simply chose the easy way out and almost deprived the D3 teams of a legitimate Ontario Cup experience. No one is in the right in this situation.

    In my eyes Noel did the right thing by withdrawing. Why go to the waste of money and time when the Ontario Cup was bound to be an unfulfilling experience. But as we tell our kids sometimes doing the right thing is not the easy or popular thing to do.

    As OBA members there are only 2 things we can do.. get involved in the system and try to change from within or work outside the OBA. All I know is I see the winds of change approaching.

    avatar
    Reasoning
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 6
    Registration date : 2013-05-15

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Reasoning on Thu May 16, 2013 6:02 pm

    The simple solution would have been to refund NBA Collective their money and not rank them at all as at the time of rankings they did not have enough scores posted. I disagree with sanctioning them all I am saying is stop disrespecting the teams that made D1 and take responsibility for their actions or lack there of. Again I disagree with the sanctioning.
    avatar
    bigred
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 139
    Registration date : 2009-11-09

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by bigred on Fri May 17, 2013 5:41 am

    http://basketball.on.ca/site/index.cfm?DSP=Chapter&ID=56&ACT=Display&NewsID=2266

    Can't answer phone calls,emails or respond in any manner but quick to levi fines.Things to make you go Hmmm.
    avatar
    lepps
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 16
    Registration date : 2011-03-14

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by lepps on Fri May 17, 2013 10:26 am

    To,mention disrespect of D1 teams is a distraction; I have not read anything in noel coaches’ dispute that suggests anything about another team, except that his deserve to be in D1. The facts are, he was not able to input His team results for the initial ranking, because the Ontario Basketball did not have his team register even though they have his money……..and his result was in with sufficient time for the final ranking,SIMPLY put they mess up! they are the spoil child who won’t or can’t take responsibility,depending on what team would have to be drop from D1 and who is on the ranking committee, you all know the politics so stop playing games, in fact your writing betray u, your language suggest you work from them be careful you are damaging your own case remember u have the right to remain silent………….
    avatar
    girlsbballfan
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 4
    Registration date : 2011-09-28

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by girlsbballfan on Fri May 17, 2013 2:45 pm

    I'm not familiar at all with the Boys side of the OBA, but I have served the past five years on the ranking committee for the '97 girls and understand the pro's and con's of our current ranking system. In my experience there are some fundamental requirements to achieving an output with the highest possible integrity and they are:
    1) timely input of results...because teams are responsible for building their own schedules it's critical to have the best information possible to understand who/where the competition is that you need to build into your schedule. It's not just a matter of getting results at the deadline so that the committee can assess. All teams need to understand the caliber of teams. All tournament organizers need this detail to properly seed.
    2) critical mass of competitive games...we really need to strive to build schedules that simulate a "league" especially in Div 1/2. For our top 18 U16 Girls teams this year, they each averaged 15 games against top 18 teams - that's an AVERAGE #of games. Most of these teams played on average 30 games in the season, the majority before the initial ranking meeting. All of our Div 1 teams had played each other at least once this season. I understand the Boys season is much shorter because of High School, but to me this just places more importance on the proper planning of a schedule... and I have to believe there should be a certain minimum games against Div 1 teams, if this is the desired final ranking.

    Ranking is as much Art as is Science when there aren't enough competitive games to evaluate... teams can really help their cause through the thoughtful planning of their schedules and the timely reporting of results just helps everyone!

    Hope this perspective helps,


    avatar
    CoachSwamp11
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 139
    Registration date : 2011-03-14

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by CoachSwamp11 on Fri May 24, 2013 1:07 am

    The Markham Gators defeated Burlington in the Stinger Tournament earlier in the season in convincing fashion. Therefore they weren't undefeated. D1 easily didn't host the strongest teams 1997 boys have to offer due to other commitments.

    avatar
    Cosburn
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 12
    Registration date : 2010-07-17

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by Cosburn on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:27 pm

    Has there been a resolution of this matter?
    avatar
    nbaca
    Freshman

    Number of posts : 19
    Registration date : 2013-05-16

    N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members  Empty Re: N.B.A COLLECTIVE addresse to OBA club members

    Post by nbaca on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:17 pm

    NBA Address to OBA Club Members Update

    Before proceeding with an update, we would like to draw attention our previous post and the distractive attention it was greeted with. It was intended to draw close attention to the actions of the OBA. We attempted to inform as well as provide an avenue for discussion amounts concerned Club Member.

    With respects to this forum, we ask for it to be an opportunity for Club members to be informed on the pertinent facts of our sanction and for the truth not to be misrepresented or undermined.
    A part of OBA’s  May 6 2013 sanctions notification letter to our Academy states… “Noel’s Basketball Academy is hereby requested to attend a formal meeting with members of Ontario Basketball staff, board and its discipline chair to assess the desire of the club to continue its membership with the association. A list of potential dates will be provided to you in the near future”
    To date we have not received a list of potential dates to formal meeting with members of Ontario Basketball staff, board and its discipline chair as was mentioned. Nor have we received any information concerning the next steps we will take or any guidance on how best to settle this problem.
    May 14th OPEN LETTER TO ONTARIO BASKETBALL COMMUNITY.



    A must read…..

      Current date/time is Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:53 am