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    OFSAA 2012 Boys AAAA Basketball Rankings

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    ballhard41
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    Post by ballhard41 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:04 pm

    1. Vaughan
    2. Father Henry Carr
    3. Holy Trinity
    4. Pine Ridge
    5. St. Michael's
    6. Eastern Commerce
    7. HB Beal
    8. St. Patrick's
    9. Westmount
    10. St. Mary's
    11. West Hill
    12. Mount Carmel
    13. JF Ross
    14. Father Goetz
    15. Louis Riel
    16. Collingwood
    17. Ursuline
    18. Bill Crothers
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    stevelogan92
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    Post by stevelogan92 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:17 pm

    Bill Crothers and Mount Carmel will be dangerous in the first round mark my words. 2 solid teams that got ranked in position because lack of big name tournaments. Not saying they will upset but saying they could be dangerous.
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    rerun
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    Post by rerun on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:23 pm

    I'm surprised that Bill Crothers was ranked 18th and that Holy Trinity and Pine Ridge got ranked ahead of Eastern Commerce and St. Mikes. I thought St. Mikes would grab the number one seed and Pine Ridge would be a six or seven seed.
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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:32 pm

    I think the obvious conclusion is that use of ineligible players in either significant numbers or significant roles was an issue after all. I apologize if my info is incorrect but I have been told that all three teams ranked lower than you expected fall into one of those two categories.


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    btownfan
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    Post by btownfan on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:41 pm

    What's the point in a coach who plays these ineligible players as starters it only robs those who could contribute @ Ofssa of valuable minutes.I could see a coach having them on the bench with the possibility of being eligible next season and if they were in their last year forget it.I guess some coach's want to win and don't really care about how it effects their team in the long run ie.doing as well as they can @ ofssa.
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    dunkcity6
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    Post by dunkcity6 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:22 pm

    I am shocked with the rankings. How does St.Mikes get a 5 and 6 seed. When St.Mike's beat pineridge at their tournament. eastern wins Toronto public and is 6th? What a joke. Holy trinity is not a three seed at all, what a shame not to credit teams who beat quality opponents.

    As for I eligible players, Xavier rimrocker you have to be a disgruntled coach. Eastern had some players who cannot compete in ofsaa and they get penalized? Those players were allowed to play in heir own leagues and they get punished to a sixth seed. St.Mike's has one player and they get punished by dropping to 5? His committee in Ottawa is out to get the Toronto Teams out early. Xavier know he facts before you start rambling off on teams.
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    murphturph
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    Post by murphturph on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:22 pm

    Rankings are wack
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    btownfan
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    Post by btownfan on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:38 pm

    Relax I don't think these are the official ofssa rankings just ballhard41's personal picks and he's entittled to his opinion.Probable the official rankings by the committee won't be avaiable till the weekend.
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    estebanwilliamos
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    Post by estebanwilliamos on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:42 pm

    No those are the official rankings http://www.ofsaa.on.ca/sites/default/files/championship/user38/SEEDING%20RESULTS.pdf
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    Mu2
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    Post by Mu2 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:45 pm

    I thought St. Mikes would have grabbed the number one seed as well
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    btownfan
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    Post by btownfan on Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:55 pm

    Yikes!!! they are the official rankings.My apologizes.All I can say is those on the commitee are not informed that well on the highschool basketball scene outside of Ottawa.You have to remember there are very few people who are that informed when it comes to basketball in this country so this is what you get.Hopefully the sport advances someday and you have people that are selected to make these rankings based on their knowledge of the sport.If someone disagrees with my assessment then tell me what their credendials are.If they are university coach's and highly reguarded basketball people I would be surprised.
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    outside_stinga
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    Post by outside_stinga on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:10 pm

    Carr has issues. I see west hill giving them a game.
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    bearscoach
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    Post by bearscoach on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:14 pm

    If the seeds hold up, 6. Eastern has to beat 16 Collingwood, 12. Mount Carmel and 3. Holy Trinity whom they defeated in the Mark Walton Tournament at Cathedral. It doesn't seem so tough if Holy Trinity is overrated.
    1.Vaughan has to beat 12. Mount Carmel, the winner of Collingwood and Crothers and then the winner of 8 and 9, against 10 and 14. It's nice to be the first seed.
    Carr #2 goes through 11, Winner of 17 and 15 and then probably 7. Beal. Not so bad either.
    Pine Ridge #4 has 15 Loius Riel, then probably 13 J.F.Ross, and then 5 St. Mikes to make it to the Semis.
    St. Mikes has to beat 17, 11 and then 4 Pine Ridge to make it to the Semis.
    I don't think the seeding committee has made it so tough for the Toronto teams.


    Last edited by bearscoach on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wrong information not corrected.)
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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:24 pm

    btownfan wrote:Yikes!!! they are the official rankings.My apologizes.All I can say is those on the commitee are not informed that well on the highschool basketball scene outside of Ottawa. You have to remember there are very few people who are that informed when it comes to basketball in this country so this is what you get.Hopefully the sport advances someday and you have people that are selected to make these rankings based on their knowledge of the sport.

    Sorry but that is a pretty ignorant statement. I happen to know who a number of the committee members are and, not only are they very well informed about the Ontario basketball scene, some of them even make a living scouting or coaching around the province. If you disagree with the rankings then fine but to claim they are ignorant is, in fact, an ignorant statement on your part.


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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:31 pm

    dunkcity6 wrote:I am shocked with the rankings. How does St.Mikes get a 5 and 6 seed. When St.Mike's beat pineridge at their tournament. eastern wins Toronto public and is 6th? What a joke. Holy trinity is not a three seed at all, what a shame not to credit teams who beat quality opponents.

    As for I eligible players, Xavier rimrocker you have to be a disgruntled coach. Eastern had some players who cannot compete in ofsaa and they get penalized? Those players were allowed to play in heir own leagues and they get punished to a sixth seed. St.Mike's has one player and they get punished by dropping to 5? His committee in Ottawa is out to get the Toronto Teams out early. Xavier know he facts before you start rambling off on teams.

    I see you are new here. I'll chalk up your way off base assessment of me and my motives to lack of previous history reading the board.

    You don't seem to understand the issue. The teams are not being penalized for using ineligible players; they have done nothing against the rules of their respective leagues. However, the committee is attempting to seed them based on the players that are eligible. If a team is only able to play 3 of their 5 starters due to eligibility does that mean they are still the same calibre as when they were allowed to use all five in tournaments? Of course not. Since seeds are very important to the balance of the tournament then the committee has to try and figure out where to slot teams based on all the information they have before them. To do otherwise would make it even harder to balance the draw.

    If the committee, which is made up of more than just Ottawa basketball insiders, is out to get the Toronto teams then why does the GTA make up the top six seeds? Why are the two Ottawa teams ranked 8th and 15th? I'm not the one who needs to know the facts before posting.


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    bearscoach
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    Post by bearscoach on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:34 pm

    Rocker, I agree with you. Those people on the committee are not only privy to all kinds of information submitted by the teams involved but they also travel a great deal to be able to see most of the teams involved. With the loss of players as a result of the G section transfers in Toronto, and with the exception of St. Mikes, I think the seeds are very good.
    If the seeds hold, Vaughan will play St.Mikes or Pine Ridge in one semi and Carr will play Eastern or Holy Trinity in the other. In any case the best teams regardless of seeding will make it through. In recent memory, I can't think of a team being lucky to win Quad A OFSAA. It is a battle of attrition and the best team will win.
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    coachc
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    Post by coachc on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:00 am

    It would be interesting to see what games the committee used to seed Eastern and St. Mikes. How many games did they even play without the players who are not eligible to play in ofsaa? I can't see the committee using the results of any games that involved players not eligible to play in ofsaa when seeding. The way I see it is that the committee got it right. If Vaughn and Carr belong in the top four and if you believe that Eastern, Trinity, St. Mikes, and Pine Ridge belong in the top 6 then your final four will likely be pretty close to what you thought. However, there are some very good teams ranked outside of the top 6 that will give teams a run for their money too.
    I don't think that it is fair that you accuse the committee of being biased. I have read on this site that some of you thought St. Pats would be ranked much higher and yet they are ranked at 8.
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    btownfan
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    Post by btownfan on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:12 am

    [quote="btownfan"]Yikes!!! they are the official rankings.My apologizes.All I can say is those on the commitee are not informed that well on the highschool basketball scene outside of Ottawa.You have to remember there are very few people who are that informed when it comes to basketball in this country so this is what you get.Hopefully the sport advances someday and you have people that are selected to make these rankings based on their knowledge of the sport.If someone disagrees with my assessment then tell me what their credendials are.If they are university coach's and highly reguarded basketball people I would be surprised.[/quote] If I'm so ignorant then tell me who's on the commitee if you know and I'll check their qualification's out myself.I've got a lot of experience myself and if I'm not correct I will apologize for my statements.Transparency is always the best policy.Back when theToronto Star did their weekly top 10 they would publish the names of those who were making the selection's.My point is the highschool game has not progressed in my opinion with with people that are that knowlegible.I guess I'm just ignorant for stating my opinion but I thought that's what this site is all about.Maybe I'LL JUST KEEP MY OPINIONS TO MYSELF IN THE FUTURE AND USE THIS SITE FOR INFO ONLY.In the future I LOOK FORWARD TO THE COMMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE CRABBER AND MANY MORE WHO KEEP ME INFORMED.
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    marty rodder
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    Post by marty rodder on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:44 am

    We don't need the names of the seeding committee.

    We need somebody to step up and run an invitational Ontario championship (Thursday to Saturday in the week after March Break makes sense). Schools need to apply to get in and other than being a full-time student that semester, there are no eligibility requirements. 32 teams anywhere from A to AAAA, so we can see if size does really matter. Winners play losers (like OFSAA) in the 2nd round and after 2 games the first day, you are down to 16 teams. The 16 teams become 8 teams after Friday morning and Friday night you have the quarter-finals. Saturday around noon you have the semis, Saturday afternoon is the bronze game and Saturday night you have gold. With Friday night and Saturday games, you should be able to sell about 2000 tickets in total for the tournament and not need to charge the teams (assuming you get a title sponsor).

    If the idea takes off and this tournament becomes as prestigious as the OFSAA tournament, OFSAA will be forced to make all of its Associations play by the same rules and either allow all transfers to play all of the time or allow no transfers to play at any time. OFSAA started off showing good leadership on this but has let each Association decide what works best for them (not for the province or even for the players) in the past decade-and-a-half and it is creating an imbalance whereby kids can transfer to other schools or even Associations and still play 60 HS games in a season. OFSAA needs to take that carrot away and some competition to their monopoly on provincial championships would be the way to do this.
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    Mu2
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    Post by Mu2 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:46 am

    I think minus the supposedly 1 ineligible player at St. Mikes, they are still in the top 3


    I think they should have received a worse seed the previous 2 years as they had several starters who were ineligible.

    This is why they don't enter ofsaa sanctioned tournaments. So they get a better seed in ofsaa

    If you want to see teams at their 'real strength' tournaments should make themselves ofsaa sanctioned
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    rerun
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    Post by rerun on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:10 am

    Regardless of where St. Mikes is ranked, they are a serious medal contender and considered by most high school coaches and observors to be the co favourite along with Vaughn. The seeding does not really matter if you're a strong team that is capable of beating anyone in the tournament. Oakwood won the Quad A Title as a 6th seed in 2010. They defeated #1 Pickering and #3 J Clarke along the way to the medal round. St. Mikes and Eastern Commerce are more than capable of doing the same no matter where they are seed in this tournament.
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    Post by Guest on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:28 am

    Really doesn't matter what the seeding is. If the team's good, they'll win regardless.
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    Post by Xavier Rimrocker on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:53 pm

    btownfan wrote:If I'm so ignorant then tell me who's on the commitee if you know and I'll check their qualification's out myself.I've got a lot of experience myself and if I'm not correct I will apologize for my statements.Transparency is always the best policy.Back when theToronto Star did their weekly top 10 they would publish the names of those who were making the selection's.My point is the highschool game has not progressed in my opinion with with people that are that knowlegible.I guess I'm just ignorant for stating my opinion but I thought that's what this site is all about.Maybe I'LL JUST KEEP MY OPINIONS TO MYSELF IN THE FUTURE AND USE THIS SITE FOR INFO ONLY.In the future I LOOK FORWARD TO THE COMMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE CRABBER AND MANY MORE WHO KEEP ME INFORMED.

    There is no need to play the martyr as no one is preventing you from voicing your opinion. However, you seem to imply that this right means that others can't challenge it based on the facts or lack thereof. You called out the committee for supposedly being ignorant of Ontario basketball and I suggested that this was a misinformed view since the committee has a number of people well-integrated into the Ontario basketball scene. This includes at least two people who scout professionally, university/college coaches who spend much of their time scouting when they are not coaching, and local basketball coaches, officials, and conveners who are involved in a variety of tournaments around the province and who host teams. It's not just folks in the GTA who keep an eye on the province.

    I'm not suggesting that they are perfect or even that I agree with the ranking 100%. No ranking will satisfy all observers and critiquing it goes with the territory. However, I firmly believe that it should be based on the facts and not on assumptions that demonstrate a disrespect for the difficult job they have.

    And no, I am not going to name their names as making this witch hunt serves no purpose.

    I apologize if you feel my use of the term ignorant was a personal attack; it was not meant as one. I was using the word in the context of its root meaning (i.e. not being fully informed about a specific issue) and in reference to the statement itself, not about you as a person in general. I am sure you are quite knowledgeable about basketball in Ontario but you were not knowledgeable about the make up of the committee.


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    Post by Guest on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:00 pm

    Xavier Rimrocker wrote:
    btownfan wrote:If I'm so ignorant then tell me who's on the commitee if you know and I'll check their qualification's out myself.I've got a lot of experience myself and if I'm not correct I will apologize for my statements.Transparency is always the best policy.Back when theToronto Star did their weekly top 10 they would publish the names of those who were making the selection's.My point is the highschool game has not progressed in my opinion with with people that are that knowlegible.I guess I'm just ignorant for stating my opinion but I thought that's what this site is all about.Maybe I'LL JUST KEEP MY OPINIONS TO MYSELF IN THE FUTURE AND USE THIS SITE FOR INFO ONLY.In the future I LOOK FORWARD TO THE COMMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE CRABBER AND MANY MORE WHO KEEP ME INFORMED.

    There is no need to play the martyr as no one is preventing you from voicing your opinion. However, you seem to imply that this right means that others can't challenge it based on the facts or lack thereof. You called out the committee for supposedly being ignorant of Ontario basketball and I suggested that this was a misinformed view since the committee has a number of people well-integrated into the Ontario basketball scene. This includes at least two people who scout professionally, university/college coaches who spend much of their time scouting when they are not coaching, and local basketball coaches, officials, and conveners who are involved in a variety of tournaments around the province and who host teams. It's not just folks in the GTA who keep an eye on the province.

    I'm not suggesting that they are perfect or even that I agree with the ranking 100%. No ranking will satisfy all observers and critiquing it goes with the territory. However, I firmly believe that it should be based on the facts and not on assumptions that demonstrate a disrespect for the difficult job they have.

    And no, I am not going to name their names as making this witch hunt serves no purpose.

    I apologize if you feel my use of the term ignorant was a personal attack; it was not meant as one. I was using the word in the context of its root meaning (i.e. not being fully informed about a specific issue) and in reference to the statement itself, not about you as a person in general. I am sure you are quite knowledgeable about basketball in Ontario but you were not knowledgeable about the make up of the committee.

    I'm not sure why you guys take this website so personally. I find it hilarious that you guys teach ur kids not to believe everything on the net and you turn around and get all emotional about a comment on a forum. This is a nice discussion forum for discussion taken lightly. These rankings real mean nothing. like i said before, if the team is genuinely good, seeding will not affect their win.
    who ever these "EXPERTS" are making these opinions and rankings, its only subjective.
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    dunkcity6
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    Post by dunkcity6 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:46 pm

    Rocker,

    You mean to tell me St. Mike's has one ineligible player whocomes off teh bench and they should be punished. They beat pineridge by 21 points who has 7 - 8 losses and Pineridge is ahead of them? Those are the facts my friend.

    As for Eastern, they did not break any rules at all. But to put them at 6 is a slap in the face. You cannot tell me the committee in Ottawa know their high school basketball.

    They got their inmformation from the coaches and based their assumptions on that. Seedings are not correct, however, I wish the Toronto teams all the best! I know people may say that Wednesday night is what matters and that is true, however, teams should be rewarded for what they accomplished through the year. If not, perhaps top teams will forgo OFSAA all together!

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